Diving Deeper Into Who You Are With the Integrative Enneagram and Guest Stephanie Foy
Jul 19, 2023
Join us for an exciting episode of our podcast as we dive deeper into the Enneagram. Guest Stephanie Foy helps Host Amy gain better insight into her authentic self and how she can use her unique strengths to take actionable steps of an Enneagram 2 towards achieving her goals. We cover topics like the different centers, emotional orientation, value systems, and more! Listen to Stephanie Foy in action and find out what it's like to be guided and supported so that you, too, can find out what makes your inner core tick. Get ready to learn about yourself in a whole new way!
KEY TAKEAWAYS
- The Integrative Enneagram contains three categories: feelers (123), thinkers (456), and action-oriented doers (789). Feelers live in the feeling center, thinkers have an internalized thinking process, and action-oriented doers are risk-averse people who check for risks.
- Learn how to integrate the Enneagram into everyday life, including recognizing one’s triggers and taking time for self-reflection.
- It is essential to understand one’s values and holy idea/divine directive, which is a unique set of ideas that guide an individual through life. This helps to create mindset shifts during difficult situations.
- The high side of each Enneagram type can be used for generating good in the world.
- This episode provides a comprehensive look at the Integrative Enneagram, offering tips and strategies for better understanding oneself and others. It is an invaluable resource for those looking to gain insight into how they interact with the world around them.
LINKS
See the Integrative Enneagram Wheel
TRANSCRIPT
Amy Hageman 00:00
Hello love's Welcome back to the living out love podcast. If you are watching on YouTube, you recognize this familiar face. This week I'm joined by Stephanie Foy. She is my mom. She's also an integrative Enneagram. Coach and facilitator, she has an extensive background in emotional intelligence, which has helped me become the functional human that I am. And I brought her back on to do some coaching with me that you all can benefit from, I hope, it will at least be interesting. If you didn't listen to the episode that Stephanie and I did previously on the Intagram. Go check that out. And if you didn't listen to the episode that I did last week, let me just catch you up real quick and say that I have sort of self diagnosed myself with autism, ADHD, and something called RSD, rejection sensitive dysphoria. And when I was reading about RSD, I was like, That's my type two. That's fine type two. So I couldn't wait to have Stephanie back on with us to talk to us about type twos. And in my specific case, what are some tools I can use when I know I'm falling into the dark side of the two? So Stephanie, mom, welcome back.
What is the enneagram type 2's vulnerability?
Stephanie Foy 01:20
So I think that it'd be helpful for your listeners, for us to just do a quick summary of type two. So even if they listen, the podcast will kind of bring me back focus. And then we can dive into sort of current stuff, and then how do we get ourselves out of it? Okay, so quick refresher, type twos. Bottom line, their motivation is they need to be liked, and they need to be loved. They want to be helpful, they want to be supportive. But in exchange for that, they're looking for people to like and appreciate them. Even more so with self preservation type twos, which, as we've talked about the self pres versus the one to ones or the socials. So the biggest vulnerability that twos have, is in being unloved. That that feels like the worst thing that could happen to it to is somebody would not love me. Whereas some other numbers wouldn't give a flip. I mean,
Amy Hageman 02:21
just you saying those words, being unloved, my body starts to think I'm gonna die. Like I get this weird, creepy sensation that I might just cease to exist. Yeah, it's terrifying.
Stephanie Foy 02:35
Whereas No, probably no other number would have that same response. Hmm. Because that's the vulnerability of the two. So the vulnerability of a three is something different vulnerability of one something different. So yes, so that's the, that's the vulnerability. The the counter to that, though, is this, the holy idea, which is that there's a divine order that there's a Holy Will, that the universe is in bigger, like, me, as a two, I don't have to control everything, there's a bigger order, and if I could let go, good will prevail. So it's, so it's just an idea to sort of put out there that that's where the twos can lean into, is what I would call divine wheel or divine order, that there's something bigger at work than myself. And when I get past when I get into that space, then I can, I can know that I'm going to be taken care of, you're going to be valued, you're going to be appreciated. So but what happens for twos is when they feel anxious, about being unloved, or unappreciated, or unlike, you know, like, like love, then what happens is it triggers defense mechanisms, or they move they act out of their blind spots, which then, you know, it becomes, in my mind sort of a self reinforcing loop like the act out then people respond in a way that you know, that feels to them like rejection, so then they act out more so you see,
Amy Hageman 04:26
yes, I'm very familiar with that loop. Yes.
Stephanie Foy 04:29
And the truth is, the people that are responding to them may or may most likely not do not have whatever it is the two thinking is not what the other person is.
Amy Hageman 04:41
Correct? Yeah.
Stephanie Foy 04:44
Something's awful. This is the worst thing are gonna hate me. They're gonna whatever and the other person's not thinking that at all. But they create this self reinforcing loop of moving into their triggers in their defense mechanism. So just put that in as a framework to think about. So the question is, how do we get to the high side of two? How do we get to that? The high side, that then gives you the opportunity as a to, to integrate with your wings, the one and three, and to utilize your strengths or release lines, which are the eight and the full. So how do we get to there, but as you and I know, if you're stuck emotionally, that cognitive leak, it's not available, right? You know, what we talked about in terms of the Enneagram is moving into those spaces of, you know, wings, or lions, or that's a cognitive process to start with, you can take yourself cognitively there, and then your emotions follow. But if your emotions are so triggered in the to space, that you can't get yourself there, then we need to do another process, you need to do some sort of emotional process to get yourself an emotional state where you then have the cognitive energy to move into a different place. That helpful.
Amy Hageman 06:16
It is, it is, I've been thinking about what it might be like to be a to that wasn't a self preservation to Yes, because my husband is a self preservation is a two that's not self preservation. And he seems to genuinely enjoy helping other people and being in relationship with other people. And often, for me, it may look like I'm enjoying it, and I may be enjoying it to some extent, but at the same time, it can feel like I'm fighting for my life. Like, if in helping this person, they don't decide, they like me, my life is on the line. And so it puts this pressure on it. Number one that makes it less fun. And then number two, it makes me very self oriented in my relationships. It's very, it's ironic, because the two is like about others. But because I feel like my life depends on it. It makes me hyper fixated on me, and like whether or not somebody likes me, right? And that's the thing that I'm like, I would really like to outgrow this. To whatever extent I can.
Stephanie Foy 07:30
Yeah, so true. So Garrett is an ethics to he's a one to one, two. And we know some other dudes that are so TOS social tos. So yeah, they even though they have the same motivation, how they experienced that is different. And most self preservation numbers, there is a level of just what it says self preservation, like, I'm not gonna live if I don't do this thing, that it's
Amy Hageman 08:03
right. It's like, fears, the motivators, what it feels like,
Stephanie Foy 08:08
yeah, to some degree, it's, it's fear of whatever is the thing that, you know, for eight, that'd be fair, big. You know, or somebody else would be fear of not being perfect. So, but the fear takes over, though, and especially if you're a self pres, then it's going to be more intensely focused on self. Where other types are not going to be as not have the same level of intentional focus on. So. So we're trying to kind of think, go back to that conversation we were having it's like, okay, so if we're, if you're stuck, emotionally, no matter what number you are, but as a two, because that's going to be a lot more self focused, they're going to be more inward, and it's all about being locked in, perceive your perception about whether or not people like you or not, that's the truth. It really gets down to your perception. People like you are valued, not about their stuff at all about how you perceive yourself. So I think the question for me would be sort of, where are you emotionally because moving into, like I said, the wings, the wings of one and three, or the bedroom release lens of foreign aid can only happen if you've processed food, any motions that are in the way, right, right. So if if we got an emotion that's in the way, then we need to work at that level first, and then we can move into To move you to a different place,
Amy Hageman 10:04
right? When you asked where I was at emotionally, the first word that came to mind was curious, I feel curious about how things might be different. Different strategies I might employ to perceive things differently. And then as I was allowing myself to go down that track, I didn't get very far because I just felt this fear. And it feels like, ironically, I carry so much fear about what other people think. But this fear feels like what if I can't do better? Like, what if I'm stuck with this?
Stephanie Foy 10:50
Right? What if, what if this is the best it's ever gonna get?
Amy Hageman 10:54
Yeah, and it's so ironic, because I feel like the whole crux of my being is just like, everybody loved me, you know, but because it's so self oriented, I end up being a jerk. Because if I wasn't worried about whether or not people love it, to me, it would allow me to just go and be in the world. So I have, I'm afraid that that I'm stuck with this.
Letting go of the resistance to letting go
Stephanie Foy 11:24
So okay, so I would like to do a process around that feeling. Because if we could let go, the feeling then could move into something. But yeah. Okay, so I think the idea is that we would try some techniques. So there's a technique called the Sedona Method. Blame that I think was originated by Hale Dwoskin, DW osk i n. And it's a process. And a lot of people find it very comforting, because it's pretty much it's an easy way to think through emotions, because so, I mean, truthfully, in our Western society, we're not really built to deal with our books.
Amy Hageman 12:12
Right?
Stephanie Foy 12:15
Stick them to the side, and we'll deal with that like, or something. So this is a process that we can start with, and then we'll see if how you build the end. And if that doesn't, if not, we'll do something about that. Okay. So first you want to do is identify what is the negative feeling you're feeling about the situation? So you've already said, I feel like I could be stuck like this forever? on that. I'll never get over this. I'll never, you know, get get get past this point. bracket. Is that right?
Amy Hageman 12:52
Right. I feel fear.
Stephanie Foy 12:55
Okay. I feel fear that I'm going to be stuck here. Okay, so the first question is, did you allow yourself to welcome the feeling? And just say, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be here until I'm till I'm old and gray. Yes. Okay. And you really get where that is where it lives in your body. How to embrace it.
Amy Hageman 13:36
It's funny, it's like it sits right in front of my spinal column. It's like not in the vertebrae themselves. It's like right in front of it. It's interesting. I don't know, but that's where I feel it.
Stephanie Foy 13:46
Okay. So would you be willing to let it go?
Amy Hageman 13:52
Yes.
Stephanie Foy 13:55
Will you let it go?
Amy Hageman 13:58
Yes When?
Amy Hageman 14:08
Tomorrow
Amy Hageman 14:28
I feel like it's dissipating now but it's just dissipating very slowly.
Stephanie Foy 14:33
Okay. So, envision that feeling like a pencil in your hand. All that in the same vision holding him for all that is in that and then let that Go
Amy Hageman 15:12
I feel like my body or my brain or something is telling me that the fears keeping me safe.
Stephanie Foy 15:20
Okay. All right. So it's like I want
Amy Hageman 15:22
to let it go but I'm afraid to let go of the fear.
Stephanie Foy 15:26
Okay, so would we be willing to welcome this feeling that this is
Amy Hageman 15:36
yes, resistance that's what I'm feeling. Yes, I'm willing to welcome resistance. Okay. Oh my gosh, that one goes so easily the resistance Yeah, like as soon as I was willing to welcome it I'd like I just feel like I can put it down.
Stephanie Foy 15:56
Okay, so let go of the resistance to letting it go. Now go back to the question where you let this go. You let this other fear that base fear that I'm going to be stuck here like this for the rest of
Amy Hageman 16:15
10 seconds
Amy Hageman 16:39
yeah, I just feel like at least for now.
Stephanie Foy 16:46
Is there another feeling part of this?
Stephanie Foy 16:57
Shame. Okay. You didn't say any more about that? Or is that enough?
Amy Hageman 17:08
That's enough.
Stephanie Foy 17:12
Would you be willing to welcome that feeling? Yeah.
Amy Hageman 17:40
This one I feel I feel honestly, like as I'm, as I'm welcoming it, I almost feel it dissipating at the same time. Yeah. Because my willingness to welcome it was such a loving decision that I feel like the energy of love is like, Okay, let's go shame. Like, yeah, let's, let's be done with this. Plus, just acknowledging that that's what I was feeling kind of made it less powerful.
Stephanie Foy 18:16
You know, what they say is when you name it, you claim it. Yeah. And when you claim it, you can let it go. Like, that makes sense. Yeah. So are you willing to let go the shame? Yes. When will you let it go? Now
Amy Hageman 18:43
and I'm just gonna, for the audience at home, I'm envisioning like, an energy in my body that's leaving. And as the energy is leaving, I'm seeing my body full of pink light, which usually represents unconditional love, they give a rose quartz. And that's helping me allow that. It's like helping me feel the shift in energy.
Stephanie Foy 19:06
Good idea. And you can also kind of think about, how does that inner how does that in the case of what you just did name, how's it feel? Sometimes you'll feel it's like, the fact that green monster or it feels like a black cloud or it feels like something that's, you know, got got a negative connotation yourself. Okay. So is there another feeling that's part of this?
Amy Hageman 19:35
I mean, now I feel I'm back to curious and I'm back to like, a teeny tiny bit hopeful. Like I'm probably curious, like a four maybe a six I'm hopeful at like 1.5.
Stephanie Foy 19:52
Is there no other feelings that we need to clear on at this point?
Amy Hageman 19:58
I don't I don't think so. I think the feeling that I have that I do have is I feel eager, like I'm ready to, to learn and see if I can experience a new perspective or shift.
Stephanie Foy 20:09
So I didn't ask you and I should have asked you at the beginning to identify the level of intensity on a scale of one to 10 that you are feeling fearful about the situation. What would you have said?
Amy Hageman 20:26
Oh, man, I would have said a 9.5.
Stephanie Foy 20:31
Okay. And so now I'm going to ask you the question, what's your intensity or the feeling of thinking, the fear that you're gonna be stuck? Like?
Amy Hageman 20:46
If you hadn't asked me how I was feeling, I wouldn't have identified fear at all. But because I'm focused on fear, I would say it's less than a two.
Stephanie Foy 20:57
Okay, I was completely gone, but it's significantly decreased.
Amy Hageman 21:01
Yes. And the thought that I have correlated to that emotion is worst case scenario, I'm going to stay who I am now. Right? Which isn't the worst? Like, I'm not the worst human on the planet. So if I stay who I am okay, but I'd like to get better.
Stephanie Foy 21:20
But you recognize your own suffering? Yeah. In that state that you would like to not have,
Amy Hageman 21:27
I would guess. Right. But it's survivable. I've made it 37 years. Right. But yeah, yeah. And I will, I will, I'm going to interject just for the listeners, because you said you should have asked me, a lot of Sedona Method doesn't ask you to name the intensity, that's a combination of two different emotional intelligence methods. You can name the intensity, but you don't have to. And we'll link to the Sedona Method book in the show notes.
Stephanie Foy 21:56
So, if you feel like, the question becomes did move on to the neck, kind of look at this, it's like, okay, if, if this is where I'm at, on the low side to clear the emotional stuff to look at the hostile attitude, or into how do I lean into the other parts? The question is, do you feel emotionally clear, didn't move on to what I would think of as a little more cognitive work?
Amy Hageman 22:27
Yes, I do.
Stephanie Foy 22:29
Okay. All right. So let's go to
Stephanie Foy 22:38
I'm thinking maybe it'd be helpful to do a little work around the high side of do before we talk about the wings or the stretch?
Amy Hageman 22:46
That, let's do it. Okay.
Stephanie Foy 22:49
So really, to get to the hosaka to the integrated to, you're really looking at how do we sort of I don't mean control or get over? Because, you know, as, as our language talks about, how do we integrate to? How do we integrate this into our ally. And so I would say, in some ways, you've done a lot to integrate the self, the high side of tip in terms of what people are looking what people expect from him to what to expect from themselves, to be helpful to make a difference in the life of other people. So in some ways, you're, you're doing that that's what you're doing in this work. That's what you want to do with your counseling with your support with your podcast. So in some ways, you're doing that. And you just need to focus on that part. And not where TOS get hung up, is focusing on the expectation that somebody is going to do one thing or the other for them, either like them or not like them. As opposed to, I'm helping because it's my calling. I'm doing this work, because it feels good to me, I'm doing this work, because this is you know, my mission on the planet this lifetime, whatever that is, but knowing that and that sort of moves into that idea of Holy Will, or divine order, like okay, I'm, I'm, I'm connected to my higher self, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. And whatever anybody else gets or doesn't get from my stuff is not mine to do. It's not that's not my step. Right. So there's, in some ways, one of the pieces for today is to disconnect from the expectation that they have about you
Amy Hageman 25:01
Whew, that's interesting. Because I've been sitting with the question of, How have I been able to be public? Like how have I been able to be on social media and on YouTube? Knowing that a lot of people think that, you know, mediums are scammers and, and all of that, like, and I was somewhere along the way, I've kind of gotten it into my body, that if somebody is going to leave a negative comment nine times out of 10, it's not about me. Yeah, like, they just don't believe in the work. And that's not about me. And so it feels it doesn't feel good, but it doesn't feel life threatening. And so even there have been a few times not many, but there's been a few times when a comment has come in, that has been upsetting. But I've been able to like regulate my nervous system relatively quickly, because I'm like, this is clearly not about me. And so I'm wondering, oh, well, if I can develop that, around this business, maybe there's ways I can develop that just around other moms and around the people on the sidewalk, you know, all the other people I've been in life with. That have like, trying to cultivate that. I don't know how to cultivate it. But it seems possible,
Stephanie Foy 26:30
we've already done so.
Amy Hageman 26:34
But that was what they're really specific thing. Like, with my business, I feel like I can easily say, Oh, they just think this is all made up. That's fine. They're allowed to think that I'm allowed to not care that they think that and then we like go our separate ways. If somebody gives me a look, my brain is if it's just like, I'm gonna say moms, if it's moms, and we're all at the park together, and a mom gives me a look, my brain is gonna tell me that it's about me. And I have a harder time. Logically, I know, they're probably just digging for something in the diaper bag, they're probably a tired mom. They're not thinking about like, logically, I know, it's not about me, but I have a really hard time getting my brain there. Yeah. And it takes me a much longer time to regulate my nervous system, if I do that at all. Whereas with the business stuff, it's like I have my repeatable, obvious logical kind of process of why it wouldn't be about me, whereas in other situations, it's like, I have to figure out why it wouldn't be about me, and then my brain just decides that in fact, it is about me. Right?
Stephanie Foy 27:47
Well, um, so you could just ask yourself a question. You know, I'm thinking about back to
Amy Hageman 28:01
where? Byron Katie?
Stephanie Foy 28:04
Yes. The first question is, is it true? Whatever the thought is, you know, oh, that mom just gave me a look, do you must think I'm better than that, or whatever that is, right. Then the next question, take a breath, and then ask yourself, Is it true?
Amy Hageman 28:24
It My body's going to tell me that it's true.
Stephanie Foy 28:27
Okay. So then the next question is, how do I know it's
Amy Hageman 28:30
true? There you go.
Stephanie Foy 28:35
No, it's true. So that's a like, okay, then that that sort of takes the air out of the balloon at that moment? Because it's like, I have no idea. Like you said, that woman could be going through whatever she's going through, you could have had a fight with her husband, you know, you don't know what's happening with other people. Right. And unless they say, you know, wish you did this, or that, then chances are, it was, you know, so, I mean, and then there's all that brain research that says, you know, when we, when we experience negative emotion, or we perceive that we experience a negative thing, that we hang on to that much longer and much stronger than we hang on to the positive. So we really, it is all about sort of dismantling those thoughts, the feelings, the thoughts that lead to the feeling with it, so I would say from a to perspective, you just have to say, okay, is this real? You know, am I am I responding to this because I'm triggered because I'm afraid that they're not gonna like me, or they're not gonna love me, or that I'm not going to have a relationship or whatever the fear is, but mostly it's about not being accepted and appreciated. Right. So So, then you say, okay, is that true? And if it's not, then dismantle it. And then you go on about sort of creating that healthy barrier that you've already created in your business. But in any other life situation, that's, it really is about creating that habit of interrupting the thought, and interrupting the pattern. Because what people do, regardless of whether they're twos are one or not nine, is, we believe we believe what we believe to be true. Right? Unless and until we intervene on ourselves, we're gonna keep running our game. So right, it really is about, okay, what is the thing? It's about developing that very disciplined habit, which is what you've done in the business, you've already done this, you just created this bear, you just created that boundaries when it banded a little bit to say, okay, you know, this is, that's their stuff, you know, is is this thing, or is that thing, if it's the the not only dealt with, not mine to do. So, intervening on that self, before we get into that self reinforcing loop that says, Oh, I'm a bad awful person, or I'm this or I'm now whatever that is running for you, whatever number you are, whatever is your bottom line. thing for you is doing for other people, it's other thing, but it's that self intervening. And the quicker you can intervene on sale, the quicker you can bring yourself back, the better.
Dealing with the dark side of people pleasing
Amy Hageman 31:47
So let me ask you this. And I'd like to ask specifically for me and my two, and then if we could carry it out from there, that'd be great to the other numbers. So let's say, my, the dark side for me of the two is the like people pleasing, blah, blah, blah. Let's say I have the situation with the mom at the park. And I'm able to say, Okay, I don't know that this is true. This is me being my true self. I love myself, I'm safe, so I don't need to worry about it. I can sometimes get myself there. But then I don't know where to go next. Like I sort of feel, you know, this is random. And I'm getting this image. You know, when in Little Mermaid when Ariel gets her seat, like, she gets her legs and she stands up, and she's just like, Well, what do I do now? It's like, I feel like, I get these legs and like, but what do I do? Yeah, so is that is that? Like, do you go to your stretch? Like what do I what do I tried to do to shift my energy to something else?
Stephanie Foy 32:46
So I would tell you, here's your Enneagram code, we're going to try out a few things. Okay to try a few things in the situation. And you're going to figure out what is your go to? What's your natural go to?
Amy Hageman 33:00
Okay, yeah, create, like a pattern of here's how I cope.
Stephanie Foy 33:04
Here's, here's, here's a way out of this. So, the first question, I always encourage people to think about, okay, I got these wobbly legs, you know, or is the person or whatever. I'm upright, I'm okay. Now, how do I navigate out of this? Yeah. Because your to your wings, let's look at your wing. So the wing is one or three. So, one. Those are the people that are the strict perfectionist. Those are the people that have a high degree of discernment. Those are people that for whom, you know
Stephanie Foy 33:53
being careful being self control, having integrity. Those are those are care hallmarks of the one that's like, okay, in a situation, what would a one person who has strong values is careful and self control? What would they do?
Amy Hageman 34:17
I'm not super familiar with one and I can think of a child and I think they would. They would take care of their own business and not worry about what anybody else thinks. Yeah, cuz so they're,
Stephanie Foy 34:35
especially self pres ones, they're really interested in showing up as perfect. They want to show up as bright so they're very self control. So
Amy Hageman 34:46
they would focus on what they're doing exactly this what I'm doing and this how I'm gonna do it.
Stephanie Foy 34:51
Right. Yeah. And their their focus their motivation and one is motivated to be good and right. You know, what's the right thing to do in this situation? Well, you might say, well as, as an enlightened person, a person who teaches love the right thing for me to do is have compassion for this other mom. That would be a that would be, did you see how that would be? That would shift you to a whole different place?
Amy Hageman 35:22
Yes, I was, I'm not gonna lie, I was really struggling. Everything I thought of I was like, Oh, I could go over there in person and like, see if they were okay. But then That's me trying to earn their affection again, like every idea I had came back to the dark side have to write.
Stephanie Foy 35:39
Okay, what would be if we thought about the hot side of one, the hot side of one being these people that want the world to work well, that they want things to be good and right for themselves. And for other people, they their value is on goodness, their virtue is serenity and peace.
Amy Hageman 36:03
So Oh. I like that.
Stephanie Foy 36:08
They think that they get to win when see ones they're trying, they're so busy, their low side is about trying to perfect the world. They're like trying to day thing, if if only they're perfect. They can make the world they can make other big help be perfect, is to feel hope. But how sad is when they realize that they don't have to go against the world? That makes sense. I'm not trying to correct it. I'm not trying to make it perfect. I believe that there's already perfection in the world, then I can just be the serenity is from the world. on the high side the virtue. So if you think about that, it's like, okay, what would a high sided one bring to this? Well, they're going to bring goodness, they're going to bring peacefulness, which I could say, also, oh, boy, I'm over here as a to. And I'm thinking this person's whatever they're thinking about me, let me have compassion for them. That would, that'd be a homicide, if that makes sense. So then the other way to go, is to think about going towards the three, which is a different energy then go in towards one. Because,
Amy Hageman 37:30
yeah, the three I relate to a little bit more
Stephanie Foy 37:32
will probably because you've lived with that. And I've
Amy Hageman 37:36
had to step into that energy to be an entrepreneur.
Stephanie Foy 37:40
Right? One is more diff is, you know, threes are competitive achievers ambitious, busy, practical, focus, adaptive and task oriented.
Amy Hageman 37:52
Yeah, I had to step into that.
Stephanie Foy 37:55
So when you think about okay, put yourself back in the spot. I'm on the playground. The mom gives me a look. Was it three gun to do?
Amy Hageman 38:06
No idea.
Stephanie Foy 38:08
Well, was there anything in that three description that said, they're attentive to other people's feelings? No, nada. Sorry. Know, mostly there. I mean, it's like, they're gonna be results oriented, they're gonna, they want to be efficient, they want to be task driven. So, you know, it's like, okay, if that mom is doing whatever she's doing, unless it gets in the way of some outcome that a three is gonna have or is working towards, it's not going to be, it's not going to be a value. They're
Amy Hageman 38:46
like, whatever. Oh, gotcha. Like, your brain is just going to filter that out
Stephanie Foy 38:50
it just as a non event. Like, whatever. Yeah. Now, if, if they're casting me a look, if they're casting a person look, and it's like, oh, I'm supposed to be working with you to accomplish something. Now we got I need to, I need to dive into that. Does that make sense? Because it's part of the task. It's part of us working together. But if it's just a person on the playground, three is probably not going to even pay. It's like, what am I here to do? What am I here to accomplish? What am I here to achieve?
Amy Hageman 39:28
Oh, that's really helpful. I worked with a parenting coach once who is always in terms of talking to the kid she's always asking what is the task and like, clearly defining the task, so helpful for me as an adult? So I think that's that's like a three question. So if I get my sea legs literally asking what is the task and then going to your question of, What am I here to do? Yeah, that's really helpful.
Stephanie Foy 39:55
If I'm here at the playground, and a woman passed me a look I'm I'm here to play with my kid,
Amy Hageman 40:01
right? I'm here to be with them. I'm not here for that. That's
Stephanie Foy 40:05
helpful kids, I'm sure my kids are safe, you know, I'm here to whatever. So shifting in to that sort of pass, practical sort of thought recently had a debrief with another dude. And that person was going through something with a family member. And I encouraged her to just say, Let's lean into your three, and go to this other person and say, I need to understand what are the things? What are the things that I can do for you, that will give you what you need? The feelings out? Yeah, just,
Amy Hageman 40:54
let's tell me the tasks that I can achieve.
Stephanie Foy 40:57
Yeah, tell me and in other words, articulate for me, what are the goals? What are the goals between you and me? Because if I can lean into goals, then I'm not going to have to be worried about whether or not I'm satisfying you and whether or not you're going to like it. Like,
Amy Hageman 41:14
I have to say, as to I love those conversations, what, I love to go to my friends and be like, what's the goal for our relationship? Like, do you want me to call you every week? Do you like what kind of support do you want for me? Like, I like having the actual outcomes, to me is coming back to the desire of making sure I pleased them so that I can feel loved. But I do like having the like, what is the structure of the relationship that's going to meet that outcome goals?
The Value of the Integrative Enneagram & Stretch Lines
Stephanie Foy 41:44
Exactly. So you can think about that, when if, if in the situation of somebody gives you a look or somebody, even an offhand comment, which can be even more confrontive than that somebody gives you, then you go, okay, so So what I mean, what, what am I here to do? And if they give me an offhand comment, I, can you filter that from a perspective of? What are they going for? Not what I'm going for? What are they going for? What is it they need out of that? What is it they're intending to achieve? And let's look at it from this very practical task for you. Which I know
Amy Hageman 42:30
it is, but it's, it's relatable with the one I could bear it. I couldn't really relate to that with a three. I'm like, okay, I can get it. Yeah, it's not my nature, but I can get it. So it seems to me like with the Enneagram, it's so helpful to know a little bit about all of the numbers, but especially like, the wings, the stretching release, you know, yes, it's like, because
Stephanie Foy 42:57
value in that in those because those are going to be the things that can help move you out of your stuck place. Right. You know, it's like anything else getting a new mind around something is what's going to move you out of, you're stuck, but to me, it's like, okay, this is the value of the Intagram is to help us figure out okay, how do I get a new mind around? How do I get a different thought? Well, then I gotta put myself in somebody else used to think different? And like you said, the more you look at one integrating the house, how to do and then how do we bring in those other pieces? Yeah, three. So
Amy Hageman 43:38
so in the conversation of like, okay, I got my legs now, how do I walk that was go to the wings. And since I'm a to the numbers on either side, or one and three, those are my wings. Remind me again, I know, my stretches eight and my releases for, right? When do I use those?
Stephanie Foy 43:55
Okay, so release just is just exactly what felt like, when you are stressed. And you need to release the stress or the energy, the negative energy that you know, whatever, then go to your phone, which is the release line.
Amy Hageman 44:13
I would have to do that. Like, even if, if I'm at the park and the mom gives me the look, even if in the moment, I managed to step into the three tennis that evening, I'm still gonna have to step into the fortnight it's gonna be you know, there's a difference between the way my body reacts initially and the way I choose to react. Right. So I'm like, it's one thing to say, Okay, I'm gonna step into this three myths, but I do still feel like my initial reaction is always going to be oh my god, I'm gonna die. That person doesn't like me. Right? Well, I have to use that for this a lot.
Stephanie Foy 44:48
So yeah, and you may see that the more you intervene on that thought, the more you ask yourself, Is it true? Is it not true? Do I know it's true? Okay, that's what's gonna get you those legs. We were talking about right and move forward. So the more you intervene on that thought, the earlier you may find you have less need to go back and process
Amy Hageman 45:09
it later. Oh, that makes sense. Okay. Yep.
Stephanie Foy 45:13
We want to do a one and done. That makes sense.
Amy Hageman 45:16
Yes. Why I'm behind a one and done, I'm behind that.
Stephanie Foy 45:22
We're gonna get to we're on for I learned a lesson from a domain name Robert Fanta years ago. That said, for those people that are seeking enlightenment on the planet, the trend is 30 seconds, every 30 seconds. So you got 30 seconds to suffer. And then it's over. It's so it's a one in depth. In my mind, it's like, Okay, we're gonna get through this, you're gonna suffer as much as you need to. And that and then over was over. So for the threes. Their value is love. And their virtue is humility, which is, you know, so funny. But no, that's two, three.
Amy Hageman 46:06
So we were talking about the release is the four.
Stephanie Foy 46:09
Yes, the release is the four. And the stretch is the eight. So when people need when you as a tude need to let off steam when you feel overwhelmed, then you go to the for the, the quiet specialist. No, that's not right. The intense creative. Yeah, so that's where and intense creative in, along with foods tend to feel their emotions very intensely. And for some fours, they really liked hanging out in those emotions, but, and then use that energy in their creative process. So a lot of people, you know, that write intense poetry, therefore, because it's all that emotion is coming, that they're swimming in, that they're using to store their poetry or to source their writing, or their art. So we see a lot of people that live in those deep emotions, as Scorpio though taking that we can learn from them is that when we have those intense when you as a to have intense emotions that you need to deal with, to be in a quiet space, and then use those emotions to move through you in a creative way. You know, whether it's paint or collage or whatever, you know,
Amy Hageman 47:40
for me, my foreignness is I will get an empty house, if it's just me, and I will wear an outfit that I would never wear anywhere else. And I will dance to music that I enjoy, but don't usually dance to. And it's like, it's just me, I'm in my experience, and it's allowed to be whatever it is. And I take such a joy at the fact that nobody knows that I'm dancing to, you know, Justin Bieber, or whatever it is. And I'm wearing just this shirt with these silly socks. Like I, for whatever reason, I get a lot of joy out of that. Yeah.
Stephanie Foy 48:15
So whatever it Whatever feels like that moving into for sensitivity, aesthetic, intense, deep, creative, expressive, emotional. So probably, if I was thinking back, and I was thinking about, about you, as a young adult, and I thought really probably all of Amy's dance, was helping her balance them of her to stuff, all your dance, it would have been intense, it was creative. In some ways, you would talk about how deeply, deeply you know, the emotion was in these movements. And so that would be very much boring energy. So I was thinking that that that she probably had some of that going on, that that's been an outlet for her. You know? Yeah. When you were a young adult. Yeah. So that's a relief line. So the stretch line, I think of the stretch line, which is your A, which is the thing that you're going to stretch into, like, you keep knocking up against the same issue, the same problem, whatever. And you haven't, what you've tried in the past didn't work. Like you haven't gotten to where you needed to go. Okay, it's time for the big dog. Now. It's time for me to really do something different. So the stretch line is, but you gotta have, you gotta have energy. You gotta have Yeah, a fairly, you got to be pretty balanced emotionally to go into that stretch place. Okay, it's going to take more energy, like the release plan is to place the lead off Energy negative, you got to build up some positive energy, if you're gonna go into stretch, okay, as you think about your stretch plan is the eight, which is the ability to exercise personal power and assert your opinions in your knees. Right? Sure, yeah. So you gotta you gotta have, you know, you got to pull up from the core in order to get to that. So, if you're feeling if your emotions are not pretty strong, or pretty clear, go into an A, it's gonna be a hard, hard stretch. That makes sense. Yeah. So, and doesn't mean that there's not a lot of value there. For goodness sakes, there's terms of value there. But how are you going to get there? So partly, that's the value of doing some emotional clearing technique is because, okay, because I can pretty much tell you those top eights. That place where you said, I'm going to be like this forever. I was at like, I call BS on that. Yeah, you know, now for worse, they could live with it forever, because they'd like to hang out in that stuff, and the intensity of it. Whereas a thrill I know, I'm calling BS and I'm moving on. Because, remember their key words strong, take charge, be decisive, be self assured, self assured, be self assured, be confrontational, be frank, I net magnetic and power center.
Amy Hageman 51:35
Whoo, the aid is interesting. I've had to intentionally step into it one or two times that I know of, with work, because with my Tunis, especially with the self press to it, sometimes it feels as though I'm waiting for somebody to come into my business, and tell me what to do. So that I can make sure it pleases people. Yeah. And that doesn't work. So it's like, I have to gear myself up to be a person that makes decisions. For myself. Yeah. That that's not motivated by what I think other people are gonna, like, that's motivated by here's what I think the business needs, or here's what I think people need. Or here's what you know, my guides are saying, but I have, but you're right. Like I have to give myself enough for I have to give myself enough release. In order to refill my emotional bank account, Stephen Covey, in order to have what I need to step into that eight, exactly. I keep thinking there's going to be a day where I'm just gonna, like live on Eighth island, but it hasn't happened yet.
Who is most resistant to the enneagram?
Stephanie Foy 52:46
Well, for the most part, people don't live on the places where they feel like it's the stretch because for I mean, we try to say that all types are good. And everybody should appreciate all types. But the truth is, there are certain types that are that we feel more naturally more resistant to. That makes sense. Sure. And because as your stretch line, you naturally have more resistance to the aid. Because they feel to you like, mean people. Yeah, to me, they
Amy Hageman 53:23
feel abrasive.
Stephanie Foy 53:25
They feel abrasive, they feel dismissive. They feel rude.
Amy Hageman 53:32
Yes. Possibly.
Stephanie Foy 53:37
So why would I want to step into that? It has its benefits. So when you think about, okay, what, what's the high side of a, you know, I don't want to step into that low side of eight that feels like the person I don't value and respect. Whereas if I lean into what the high side of a, Oh, these are people that get stuff done, these are people that, you know, contribute, in a way, these are people that can make decisions. They're the people that, you know, don't mind taking charge. Okay, so is there some value in that for me? Yeah, there's the value there. So we lean into that part and recognize that asset.
Amy Hageman 54:21
So let me ask you this, okay. If anybody takes the Enneagram, let's say there are two like me, automatically, their wings are going to be the same because the wings of the two or one and three are all twos. All twos are going to have the eight as their stretch and the four is the release. Yes. Okay. Okay. So if somebody takes the Enneagram, then they could go back and listen to our previous episode to learn what they're stretching their releases, if they want to employ this coaching that we've talked about.
Stephanie Foy 54:52
Yep. Yes. So now, I will say, let me back up for the integrated in Enneagram the type that I work with our philosophy, our research this, that people's wings are literally the numbers on either side of their, their,
Amy Hageman 55:12
their type number. Yeah.
Stephanie Foy 55:14
Where as there are some folks out there, that will give you an Enneagram assessment, and they'll tell you, you are a two with a six plane, which makes no sense to me. Okay, two, six are not anywhere. If you look at it on the diagram, right wheel with this, the ancient geometry, this stuff where this comes out of that ancient philosophy. two and six are not related. I mean, they're not side by side, there's nothing that connects the two. And so to me, that's a false philosophy, in my opinion of the Enneagram. Okay, I when I think about the Enneagram, the, the wings are always going to be those two numbers on either side. So and then the wings are always going to be following that ancient geometry, that ancient architecture that's represented in the dark.
Amy Hageman 56:12
That makes sense to me as well. Yeah.
Stephanie Foy 56:15
Because otherwise, it would be chaotic. But who could be a do with a? That's so far the integrative type? That, to me, has all the research behind it has the psychometric testing, I feel very comfortable. Yeah. Your wings are always the number 70.
Amy Hageman 56:38
Well, it does seem to me also, I'd get, I'm curious for your feedback on this. But from the little that I know, from each number, it does seem to me like there's a logical sequence that that two would follow one, and that three would follow to like, they don't want to say they build on one another. Because it's not like a building. It's not like one is more basic or less intense than the other. But there, it makes sense to me that there's like, oh, how do I describe it? I mean, the one and the three are both more task oriented. Right? The two and the four are both more emotional, like, it seems like there's some rhythms in the way that the numbers evolve. That, to me makes sense why the wings would always kind of be the same. Yeah, because there's some natural rhythms, just as you were saying, with the ancient geometry of the sacred geometry, like there's some sacred geometry involved,
Stephanie Foy 57:39
right? Well, and every. So within each section of the nine, three of the numbers fall in the feeling primarily in the feeling center. Three, the numbers fall primarily in the thinking center, and three, the numbers fall primarily in the Action Center. And then within those 123. Within those, you've got one that's going to be highly more feeling centered. Of the feelers you've got a more feeling centered, and then you want one that's going to be less feeling centered, and then you're going to have one that's going to be more neutral. So you've got high, high, low and medium, feelers, high, low, medium thinkers, high, low, medium, action oriented people. Does that make sense? So yes, yeah. There you go.
Amy Hageman 58:37
So two, and four are feelers. Yeah. What's the other feeler?
Stephanie Foy 58:44
Well, let's see. 123. Would it be? Nine?
Amy Hageman 58:52
Oh, of course. Yeah. Okay, so 249 are the feelers which ones are the thinkers.
Stephanie Foy 58:59
Well, okay. So one, two and three, live in the feeling center.
Amy Hageman 59:04
Okay, that's the feeling center.
Stephanie Foy 59:06
They live in the feeling center. The thinking numbers are four, five and six.
Amy Hageman 59:12
Okay, and we got our skeptics there
Stephanie Foy 59:14
for being the emotional thinkers. Five being the deep quiet thinkers, the internalized thinkers, six, those are the action people because they're so worried about everything's gonna go to hell in a handbasket. And, you know, the next year is going to drop those are the risk averse people they're always checking for risks. They're, you know, their ability,
Amy Hageman 59:36
but four or five six is thinking is thinking, but six is is the action oriented thinker. Gotcha. Okay. oriented thinker.
Stephanie Foy 59:47
That means,
Amy Hageman 59:48
yes, okay, that makes sense. And then 789 Are the action ones and nines the feeling action,
Stephanie Foy 59:57
right. Okay, feeling Action is the action action action.
Amy Hageman 1:00:02
And sevens, the thinking action, the visionary,
Stephanie Foy 1:00:04
the visionary.
Amy Hageman 1:00:06
Oh, that makes so much sense
Stephanie Foy 1:00:08
that though,
Amy Hageman 1:00:11
yes, talk about sacred geometry, that makes so much sense. And so it always goes thinking feeling action thinking feeling action?
Stephanie Foy 1:00:20
No, two, three link bars.
Amy Hageman 1:00:23
Okay, it doesn't. Okay, so it's just the got it. Wow,
Stephanie Foy 1:00:27
they cluster in those particular types, those particular orientations. And then we look to see, and if you remember, in your report, you we talk about whether or not your thinking feeling and Action Center are internalized externalized or neutral. And so, you know, then they're fair game within. That's. Yeah, but it does make sense.
Amy Hageman 1:00:58
Yeah, it does. And there's a lot more, there's a lot more to the Enneagram, then, or at least excuse me to the integrative Enneagram. than, than meets the eye.
Stephanie Foy 1:01:10
Oh, there's so much here. And yeah, it's dense, dense stuff. Yeah. I mean, you could spend a whole bunch of time just working with your values in your burger, you could spend a whole bunch of time just working around your holy idea.
Amy Hageman 1:01:27
Yeah. Well, I appreciate you coming back to my experience of feeling is often that I get, I go from two to four relatively quick sometimes. And I stay in that for for a while. And then something will happen. And I'll be like, come on a movie a day, you know, like something happens where I've just like, and I'm done with this. But I don't always have the support or the resources to help me do whatever it is the eight would do. Yeah. So I appreciate you coming and giving me some thoughts and some strategies to help me shift into that.
Stephanie Foy 1:02:08
Yeah. So you just say, what is it? What would an eight do? You know, how would what would I do in this situation?
Amy Hageman 1:02:18
I mean, an eight takes no prisoners. Well,
Stephanie Foy 1:02:24
what you can think about them from the high side, the value of the aid is that they they have capacity to get things done. It's not about they're not most eights, good eights, high sided. Eight, they're not out to offend people. They're not out to make people angry, or to take. That's true. They're just out to make things happen.
Amy Hageman 1:02:52
Like that. Yeah,
Stephanie Foy 1:02:53
they can make decisions.
Amy Hageman 1:02:56
I love it. That's, I mean, for two that's actually quite inspiring.
Stephanie Foy 1:03:00
Right? So they're not really out. Now, there are some algorithmic aid, you know, some undeveloped low sided aids that we would say, you know,
Amy Hageman 1:03:13
yeah, sure. We all have all types of
Stephanie Foy 1:03:15
every type. We have we and we all know some of those. So, but the high side is a it's it's like, okay, they're out there using their eight energy for good in the world. Yeah. So you could say, okay, the high side of eight is capacity have capacity. And I have strength and power. Use my I have capacity. And I add in a couple that with power, drink decisiveness. Now, um, go.
Amy Hageman 1:03:57
You just wrote me a mantra, I have capacity I have strength and power. Right. Like that's something that I need it because it's not untrue. I know that about myself. But I don't think about it and remember it
Stephanie Foy 1:04:12
well, because it's not what motivates us.
Amy Hageman 1:04:19
But it's what allows me to live out my to purpose to the extent that I want to,
Stephanie Foy 1:04:24
exactly and what will allow you to live out the hostile attitude
Amy Hageman 1:04:29
right? Inside you exactly like the eight there's been moments of of three and of eight that are 80% of the outcome of my business. You know, like my two side is the probably the the intuitive and the person that does the readings, but none of that happens without the other work.
Stephanie Foy 1:04:52
Exactly. The practical task oriented three, they get it done make decisions A
Amy Hageman 1:05:01
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for all of your help and we're gonna have all sorts of show notes, Sedona Method, integrative Enneagram. I mentioned Stephen Covey. We've mentioned all sorts of good stuff. Byron Katie. So we're gonna have all sorts of links in the show notes. And obviously we'll have what is it Foy and associates.co? Is that your website or is it point associates.co is where you can find Stephanie Foy if you'd like to learn more, and we'll talk to you next week loves bye
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