Loving the Enneagram Type 8s

• The characteristics of the 8 archetype, such as being active, controlling, decisive, and power-oriented
• Examples of famous Enneagram 8s like Mark Cuban, Bernie Sanders, and Donald Trump
• How the 8 energy has influenced the founding and history of the United States
• The high and low sides of the 8 type, including their strengths and weaknesses
• How the 8 can be balanced by their wing types (7 and 9)
• How to provide feedback and show love to an 8 type

 

Transcript

Stephanie Foy  0:00 

So, the eight is called active controller. They are the people that you think about the they're strong, they take charge, they're decisive, they're self-assured. They can be confrontational. They can be magnetic in their high side, and they're power oriented, so they're always going to be solving for who has the power. How do I get power, and how do I make things happen?

 

Amy Hageman  0:35 

This season on the living out love podcast, we are focusing on you, who you are, what motivates you, what you're here to contribute, and how you can expand. We'll be utilizing my leadership skills and spiritual connection diving deep into the Enneagram and astrology. Listen every week to become intimately aware of yourself. Only then can you heal and grow. Let's get to work. Loves, hello, loves, welcome to the living out. Love podcast. We are talking about the Enneagram eight today, and I have to say that, due to summer and back to school, I feel a little out of sorts. It's been a while since we've done an Enneagram episode, but also, I have a lot to learn from the eight, so I'm very excited. So, who wants to kick us off? What's, what's the name of the eight, the archetype of the eight, and who are some famous eights?

 

Stephanie Foy  1:32 

Well, I'll start with the archetype of the eight. So, the eight is called active controller. They are the people that you think about the they're strong, they take charge, they're decisive, they're self-assured, they can be confrontational, they can be magnetic in their high side, and they're power oriented, so they're always going to be solving for who has the power? How do I get power and how do I make things happen? So interesting, isn't it? So

 

Dana Foy 2:13 

I'm looking at a list of famous Enneagram eights, and I'm kind of surprised about this one at the top of the list, it says Mark Cuban, successful billionaire, owned the Dallas Mavericks for a long time. I think he sold them. Maybe still owns tomorrow. I don't keep up with him, but he seems to be a little bit softer personality delivery for an eight versus the other eights that I'm aware of in my life, other ones, Bernie Sanders, you know, democratic socialist and from Vermont. That's a, that's a surprise, yeah, Donald Trump is not a surprise. You know, that's, that's a very, uh, strong example of the low side of an aide in my probably everybody's Barbara Walters, no surprise. Dr Philip McGraw,

 

Amy Hageman   3:02 

Dr Phil, yeah, yeah, I

 

Dana Foy  3:04 

can kind of see that. Kathy Bates, so those are some famous enneagram Eights that people that are been around recently enough that I think people could get a view

 

Amy Hageman  3:18 

of interesting. And I think in a previous episode, we talked about, you know, the archetypes that we that we tend to love here in the States, and the eights was one of them, right? It was threes and eights,

 

Stephanie Foy  3:31 

Three, Sevens, and Eights. We were a 3-7-8, 3-7-8

 

Amy Hageman  3:35 

okay? And why is that?

 

Stephanie Foy  3:38 

Well, because we are. We think about our foundation. We were. It was visionary. It was something that hadn't been done before. That's seven so it was founded on this, this idea of innovation, of vision, of and that continued to be true. Think about all of the, I mean, some people say, oh, we could have just been the 13 Colonies and been the United States, and that would have stopped. But no, you know, there was all of the Westford expansion. There was all the, you know, all that. So, there's lots of seven energy. But then we also, in order to make that seven stick, there had to be success, and there was that controlling part that said, you know, we gotta take charge. We gotta be strong. We gotta be leaders. We so it was seen that that eight energy was needed to make the country stay together. And continue to be successful. So, we think about, if I think about, you know, I'd be interested to know the Enneagram types of our founding fathers, but I'm thinking, you know, when we think about Hamilton, and everything we know about Hamilton from the play, we. Could definitely say he was probably a very strong three success. Gotta be successful. I gotta be successful. I gotta be successful. I'm gonna do whatever it takes. Do whatever it takes. Now, he had his downfall, but then there was the eight energy of we've gotta be decisive. We've gotta take charge. That was sort of the Washington if you think about what, what it required for him to be able to lead the Continental Army and stay with it until they could defeat the British. So, I don't know what their Enneagram types were, but I think there was a lot of that energy in the founding of our country that sort of seeded itself into the fabric of our being. And I think that if you look across then into industry and into corporate America, that that's continued the drive for innovation, the drive for newness, the drive for vision, coupled with take charge, get it done, be successful. Very different than think about the French culture, where it's more about pleasure and art and beauty and siestas. Yeah, different, a whole different kind of connotation. So, there we have it

 

Amy Hageman  6:26 

with eights. I think at one point I remember you telling me that eights were not in the nurturing sense, perhaps, but they were caretakers of others. They

 

Stephanie Foy  6:37 

can be caretakers when they are in their high side. They choose to, they want to exercise their power on behalf of other people like they want to, because they see things that need to be done or that other people need to be protected. They can be they can use their power and protection of others.

 

Amy Hageman  7:06 

So, what is it that eights? I mean, you said they value power, but what is that? I'm trying to think of the eights that I know personally, and I don't know that they would resonate with that. I mean, talk to me about valuing power, like, what's the benefit of power?

 

Dana Foy  7:29 

Okay, I can't reveal his name, but I know a that does value protecting people. This particular person, he saw a need to create a mentorship program through a network that that I'm a part of, and he put it together, made it happen. And he didn't have, he didn't have any problem making the decision and doing what he thought was right in if you were a sensitive person or you were a touchy-feely person, he's not aware of that. In fact, that bothers him. He doesn't understand why people have that. You know this, this is here. It needs to get done. It's the right thing to do. You got time, you got money, show up and help me. Help, help this, help this need in society. And it's not what a lot of people are used to someone that that's direct, that's that blunt. And so, he, I'm going to call that a very powerful, controlling, protective, uh, community, and this, I mean, I wish I could put him on stage so you all could seem to be an interesting study, but very successful guy. I'm inspired by him. I like him, not always pleasant to be with, but he gets, he gets things done, and they're done properly and but not a lot of nurturing happens in the process. It's, it's more of a get it done now, get it done now, if you got your feelings hurt, get over it. You know, we're getting this done it kind of thing, yeah. So here's, y'all can. I don't know if y'all can track that, but that's, that's how I perceive it. Yeah, that's helpful.

 

So, here's an interesting note, Kamala Harris, type eight. Now she has a little softer delivery than the person I was talking to. So, she one of her wings, or one of her lines, or something softens her, her delivery.

 

Stephanie Foy  9:50 

She is, to me, she's a more evolved eight. She, when she when you talk about an evolved eight that uses their power for the protection of others, for the to look at, you know, take charge, be strong, but on behalf of others. That's how she what, what her history has said, that she has done and so and kind of that, you know, going back to her original story, when she would come home and talk about the injustices, and her mother would say, what are you going to do about it? Yeah, well, what are you doing, you know, so it's like that was bred into her. So, it's going to be interesting. Because, I mean, as we go through the next few weeks, we're going to have these two eights battling it out. And what's interesting is, I just heard this on a podcast this morning. Is what people want, what people always want in an election is seven energy. They want vision, they want innovation. They want things to change. And so, it really is going to be a job for either of them to convey to the people how they're going to use that, that eight energy that they have, the power that they will have, personally as type A and in the office, to drive that seven energy and ultimately the three success. So now what I would say is, you know, not, I don't know him personally, so or I know neither one of them personally. From the outside, I would say, Trump, is it a that's on the low end. He's not an evolved date. He's seeking power for power's sake. He's seeking power for his own use, like it's these seeks power, as I see it, for on behalf of others, for the benefit of others. So, we'll see if they, if they get that message across and where people line up?

 

Amy Hageman  12:07 

Yeah, I've been I've been looking forward to this episode, because as a two, eight is my stretch, and earlier you said that aids can be confrontational, and as a two, that, to me, is an inherently negative word. But I was thinking about like the root of the word is just to confront something, to face something, right, which is not inherently negative, no, you know. And the shadow of it too is that we're not going to do that for the sake of, you know, making sure people are pleased and happy, you know.,

 

Dana Foy  12:41 

Right. Okay  so, I want to piggyback on what Stephanie just said. One of the qualities of Eights is, if they are influential, I'm going to read this to you. They have their own way of taking charge in influencing others, including within the larger organization. So, this influential status is a is a key quality of being a others that they are independent, protective, decisive and assertive, protective. So, I see that in both of our presidential candidates, yeah

 

Amy Hageman  13:14 

and protective, decisive and assertive are all things that would be good things for me to grow into.

 

Dana Foy  13:23 

Well, some of this is, I see in your true nature protective. They are big hearted and protected people and things they care about; they fight against injustice. That's the protective nature of an eight decisive. They trust their gut and are quick to respond, willing to make decisions to move things forward. Kind of a risky thing. If you're a nine like me, you want to think about it first ruminate on it. Well, I've got an eight wing, and whenever I'm impulsive, it gets me in trouble, and I forget that. So, the eights aren't afraid of being in trouble, I guess. And on the assertive, I mean, no more assertive than Donald Trump, but the healthy assertiveness that obviously, I think Kamala is more evolved than Donald and she goes by with a more nurturing nature, more comfortable nature for me as a nine to experience.

 

Stephanie Foy  14:28 

Well, I was trying to put on the other hat. I was trying to say, okay, let me think about this. And I was thinking about So, if one of the one of the hallmarks of an A is that they Amy you were talking about, confront that they confront injustice, because that's what they so if that's the case, I would guess then that the way. What is unjust to Donald Trump is different than what's unjust to some of the rest of us. So how he defines what is the thing that he's fighting for is different than how some of us so anyway, I was trying to think, okay, if that's his nature, what's the thing that he's, you know, confronting? When is he confronting? Yeah,

 

Amy Hageman  15:28 

you know, I'm thinking about it eight that I know that started a whole nonprofit organization fundraises for a demographic of people that this person does not belong to, you know, but they are an oppressed, sort of invisible demographic. And when I think about that side of this person, I'm like, oh, I could totally see like, I'm going to take action and I'm going to protect these people. And it is confrontational. This person's having to go in and have conversations that other people don't want to have because it's easier to leave unseen. People unseen, you know, they're unseen for a reason. So, like, that's the really positive. But then there's times when interpersonally, I'm with the eight, and it feels so much like as a two, um, I'm like, could you care a little bit about what other people are thinking and feeling about you? Could you a little um, so talk to me about what's the what is the high side and the low side? We've sort of hinted at it.

 

Dana Foy  16:37 

Okay, so the low side is that if you're a sensitive person, their direct, confrontational manner can be offensive and put off and make you not want to work with them. However, in times of crisis, someone who stands up takes charge, who has some wisdom and a definite opinion about what is right, can be a safe harbor for people who are indecipherable. Okay, I like what this guy's saying. He's in charge. I can trust him. I can support this person. So those are two different ways of experiencing an A Stephanie, what do you think are you about that?

 

Stephanie Foy  17:15 

Um, sorry, your question again,

 

Amy Hageman  17:18 

what? What is the low side of the eight and what is the high side of the eight? I mean, we talked about what, what are they defining as just and unjust? Right and confrontational. Can be positive that we're confronting something, or it can be just combative for combative sake, I guess. But what other what other ways of like draw me a vision of what's a low eight and a high eight. I know you compared Trump and Harris, and sort of said one was more evolved than the other. But could you give some more examples of that?

 

Stephanie Foy  17:53 

Okay, well, so think about the words that are labeled. How we label an active controller. So, in their low side, active controllers are micromanagers. They want to tell everybody exactly how to do everything. They sometimes can borrow some energy from that one type. You know, would it be with perfectionist Street? Not, not necessarily that perfectionist, but that it's their way. It's kind of their way or the highway. Um, got it on the low side, you're talking about people who have a lot of energy and who don't necessarily value or appreciate others who don't come with the same level of energy, like for an A you gotta meet them head on, like they don't, they don't value respect, people that Don't meet them head on. They, you know, and the high side of eight, the more evolved date is, if you are in an argument with an eight, they want you to be full in, they're going to be full in. They want you to be full in. But then when it's over, they're likely not. They don't carry a grudge. They just move on to the next thing, whereas somebody else would still be holding on to. Well, they said this, and they said that, and what about this? And for them, it's like it's one and done, so different sort of orientation in terms of the results, but they definitely want people who will match up to their energy and their intensity and their -  and they don't, necessarily they have, you know, we talk about their wings, but this peacemaking, this like, like, like, let's, let's build a coordination and. Collaboration, not so much, but that's a stretch for them. So

 

Dana Foy  20:06 

okay, so the idealized self-image for eight is, I must be in control. I must be strong. I must not be controlled. So that is their idealized self-image, the worldview is the world is a tough and unjust place in which only the strong can survive. Good things happen to those who take control. Okay, the focus of attention, making sure that nobody is controlling them, paying attention to solutions and results, posting focusing their efforts on expanding their influence. And the motivation this type stems from the motivational need to be strong and avoid feeling vulnerable. So, their vulnerability is feeling vulnerable.

 

Amy Hageman  21:01 

Yeah, I could see how nine would be a much harder wing for them than seven. You know, perspective taking and, you know, trying to keep the peace. And that doesn't seem like an easy way to lean for an aid compared to big energy and adventure. And let's do the next thing and the next thing and the next, you know, right?

 

Dana Foy 21:23 

Go ahead. Go ahead.

 

Stephanie Foy  21:25 

I was just thinking about because we're just, this is an interesting we're using these two people drop in Paris, and I'm thinking her early indications are that she is going to be inclusive in her cabinet. She's looking for people across the spectrum. She's hopefully going to put Republicans in her cabinet. If she's elected, Trump is going heavy on the side of Trump's you gotta be, you gotta be loyal to Trump. And she's like, no, I want to. I want a variety of opinions around the table. I want, I definitely, I want to bring people with different thoughts. So, she's already leaning into that nine in terms of how she thinks about what's important. He's definitely leaning into strong, eight, strong people who are going to line up behind me and be with me in my state.

 

Amy Hageman  22:23 

Yeah. So

 

Dana Foy  22:24 

the vice for enneagram Eights is a lust, a no-nonsense approach combines with their grab all you can attitude to fuel their vice of lust. The lust ensures that they do everything in excess, often going to extremes and engaging in life as a constant conquest

 

Amy Hageman  22:46 

that grab all you can energy.

 

Dana Foy 22:50 

Obviously, that's speaking to the low side of the A but that gets it out there for people to just kind of think about and dwell upon. So, what are eights about?

 

Stephanie Foy  23:01 

Yeah, so I recently had an opportunity to debrief an eight and this woman, the African American woman who had risen high in the ranks of academia and self-described when there were positions open people would not have her own seeking. People would come to her and say, you should, you should do this. You should take this on. You should. And I said, why do you think that was? And she's like, well, it's just kind of like my nature. I get things done. And I said, yes. And given where you were, I think people must have thought that you were acting strongly on behalf of others. She said, Oh, for sure. So, for her if she was maybe a reluctant eight. She had all the eight energy, but she didn't. She wasn't necessarily going after power for power’s sake, but because she had and because it was inherent, and because, I would say she was, you know, a degree, some degree of evolved aid that people naturally sought her out take on roles that were for other people would have been more challenging that she just saw us need to do.

 

Amy Hageman  24:34 

So, yeah, well, earlier, you mentioned that, you know, Eights are not going to have respect for people that can't keep up with them and show up for the, you know, the fight, basically, I'm curious, besides people, besides, you know, the people that can't keep up, what, what things or situations, what triggers an eight if stuff that happens, what should we be on the lookout for?

 

Dana Foy  24:56 

So, let me put this in there for before we talk more about that, they're fixate. Seen this vengeance highly sensitive to unfair actions or thoughts directed at them or others, results in the revenge, seeking revenge through anger and intimidation as a means to rebalance these wrongs. Okay, so triggers for Eights are being controlled or blindsided. Others not being direct. Others understanding their strengths and injustice. Others are underestimating their strengths. Probably, pardon me,

 

Amy Hageman  25:42 

yeah, I would imagine if I was a controller, I wanted to be control. I wanted to have all the influence. If others are not being direct, that would feel slimy. You know, that might just not be a direct person. But I think if I was an eight it would feel maybe manipulative, or like they're trying to cut my legs out from under me, sort of like

 

Stephanie Foy  26:04 

I just don't have time for this. Tell me what you want so we can get something done. Yeah. So, the defense mechanism is denial.

 

Amy Hageman  26:15 

Okay,

 

DanaFoy  26:16 

you know, we see that in Trump a lot. Just deny, deny, deny. I hate to pick on Trump, but he's just the obvious, unhealed date, and I think we all know him,

 

Amy Hageman  26:25 

so be picking on him. With Kamala, you know, everyone is commenting that she hasn't done off the cuff. She's done one interview, and it wasn't very off the cuff, you know. And so, I think that might speak to her. Need to be in control of the conversation, you know, yeah,

 

Stephanie Foy  26:43 

what's interesting about Eights also is that they have a blind spot and can be a blind spot that they can often have a double standard about control, because they want to control everything, but they do not want to be controlled under any circumstances. So that sort of double standard can get them in trouble. So that's one of their blind spots, right? There is they want to control, but they don't want to be controlled. Another blind spot is, many of them don't, aren't self-aware of how overpowering they're controlling, and energy is they don't, you know, they just think, everybody's like this, I'm like this. I'm getting things done. And they don't realize they're landing hard on other people.

 

Amy Hageman  27:31 

Yeah, that doesn't help well. And I think that in a in a nutshell, is the beauty of the Enneagram. Anyway, if you're thinking everybody on earth is going to look, look like an 8b, and eight, and they're not. You look at them and you think you're broken, yeah? Rather than look at them and being like, oh, you're being a two, that's exactly what you're supposed to be doing. Got it? I'm gonna move on, you know, right?

 

Stephanie Foy  27:54 

Yeah? Well, I mean, it was, I mean, as we've talked about, because we're, we're talking about this whole election thing, it was like before, when it was Joe Biden Trump was trouncing him because he had this eight energy and Biden was a sixth by nature anyway, which is a lower energy number. You don't think about them as high energy. They're stabilizing. They're safe, they're, you know, they're grounded. And so that was very different, energy wise, from what you get with an eight, yeah, and so,

 

Amy Hageman  28:37 

yeah, eight seemed to be much more of a force of nature. Yeah, the three sevens and eights all have that high energy component. So, we talked a little bit about the wings already. Of course, our last Enneagram episode was about the sevens, and so people are probably familiar with that. With nines, we haven't had a whole episode about it, but we've said, you know, nines are peacemakers. They keep multiple perspectives. Dad, you mentioned that they think on things a lot. Anything else we should know about the nines and the eight wing perspective in that regard?

 

Stephanie Foy  29:10 

Okay, so grow through the wings so the nine can help the eight by slowing down and combine their strength with kindness. Gonna take a lot of practice to do that, but just to slow down and be aware that those with them, working with them, are not necessarily gonna move at the same fast pace as they are. Are maybe turned off by a direct blunt Now, some people need to process information a little bit so the nine can tell, let them to be aware of the strengths and weaknesses of his team, and, you know, give them time to process, also, not try to do everything all at once. You know, sometimes when you're working with an eight as a boss, everything is a high priority. Mm. Everything has to get done ahead of time, primarily, but at all times. Well, not everything is as important as other things, and some things can take a little back burner while you get something really important. So that that's what the nine can do. You know, the other wing is the seven. And you know, the seven, you know, sevens are about having fun and being excited and about what's next, so the seven can help a kind of lighten up and not be so serious and intense. And, you know, maybe have a softer or more playful vision about what's to come, particularly when you work on a project that's not Do or die, you know. So, the seventh and the ninth can balance, I think, together, can help balance out this serious, intense, blunt, overpowering over controlling nature of the eight and make them aware that that sometimes they're hard to receive by I'm going to call them the softer, more touchy-feely numbers. I don't know what other way to say that, but yeah, you'd rather have a I'd rather have an eight in my corner than an eight opposite?

 

Amy Hageman  31:21 

Yeah, that's true.

 

Stephanie Foy  31:26 

So, if I if I have a choice, I'd rather win the eight over. And from a management perspective, if you have an eight on your team, the best thing you could do is try to figure out, what can you give them that they can be in charge of and let them be in control of something totally like that will pacify them and make it easier for you. If you're trying to do, you know, a lot of team stuff, that's great, but then they're going to need something that that is sort of like there's a lot whatever that is that they can do because and utilize them in a way that puts them in a place where all that energy and all that decisive action can benefit. And there's always someplace we need that eight in. I think what you said in terms of perspective taking is that leaning into nine so that they learn to get other voices, other perspectives. I um, and then I think the other thing for a, for an A as a leaning into their seven wing, is being willing to have other experiences that where they may not be in control. Um, what? What could happen, what's going to happen, leaning into that. And so sometimes that's a way, you know, Steven and I have laughed about eights in a boat. You know, Gorham rafting is a great, great exploration for an eight because they, you know, it's unlikely they're going to be controlling much, but learning through that experience, they could learn to sort of let go and, oh, this could be fun. And I could, you know, I don't have to be in control every minute, but it's you find most aids. I mean, it was thinking about somebody who basically said that they were going on vacation with an eight and everything was planned. Everything was like, we're going to do this tour at nine o'clock, and then at 11 o'clock we're going to go this place for lunch, and at one o'clock we're going to do this tour. You know, it's like, everything was planned. And I think probably the way. The reason why is because that's the way to maintain control when you when you got it all planned out there. There's no ifs ands, but so

 

Amy Hageman  34:12 

yeah, yeah, Hmm. Well, talk to me about the stretch and the release for the eight, I know two is one of those numbers, since I'm on that one.

 

Stephanie Foy  34:27 

Okay, so the release is the two, and they can find some release and just being more vulnerable to others, they can calm down and realize that that they can relax and be aware of how their impact is on others, and how that, if they can be a little more vulnerable instead of overpowering, they can make a connection with people and appear to be more human. And you know, people can get to know them more personally, above and beyond. You know, let's get this done now. And. And we're going on to the next step.

 

Amy Hageman  35:04 

Well, I and I was thinking about, you know, if eight, if the high side of eight is that they're protective of others, the Compassionate helper, makes total sense for that to be aligned. Because it's other oriented. It's just coming at it from an emotional connection point of view, rather than an action taking controlling point of view, right? So that was their release. So, what's the stretch?

 

Stephanie Foy  35:33 

Okay, that's the five. That's where you take a step back. Kind of control your impulses and conserve your energy. You know, think something through a little bit before you engage your team and put them to work. Crack the Whip to kind of conserve. Think of, you know, think, think about as it How am I impacting my team? How can I get them rather than them dragging in with yourself? Just kind of calm down.

 

Amy Hageman  36:03 

Remind me what the five is called Quiet

 

Stephanie Foy  36:06 

specialist. Quiet, thank you. Quiet, think about and then they are, um, they go inside. They go quiet, they isolate. So, going into quiet, going into isolation, think about what kind of balance that could bring to any out there, out front, energy, push, push, push.

 

Amy Hageman  36:37 

And that's the stretch. So that's the growth, not the like, not the relax, that's the thing they would have to actively choose. It's not going to come naturally to them, I guess is what I'm saying.

 

Stephanie Foy  36:48 

So, stretch can be both sides. It's the same side of one coin. So, one side of that coin is stress. So, when I have to be in this situation, it's stressful. On the other side of that coin is stretch, which is, if I choose it, it will support me to grow in another direction. So,

 

Amy Hageman  37:10 

oh, okay, so if you're in stress and stretch, okay, if you're in stress and you're in that number, you're probably more likely to be in the shadow side of that number, right? Rather than choosing it consciously, you're probably more likely to show up on the high side, yes, if especially if you're practicing

 

Stephanie Foy  37:31 

Yes, okay,

 

Amy Hageman  37:34 

yeah. I mean the quiet specialist, I could totally see why that would be growth, you know, right,

 

Stephanie Foy  37:41 

choosing would be lead to growth, but being put there by circumstance will cause states to just go, you know, yeah,

 

Amy Hageman  37:53 

go crazy. Um,

 

Stephanie Foy  38:00 

so, I feel like we've manipulative. Our words that come to come to mind,

 

Amy Hageman  38:05 

okay, yeah. How do I get my power back? Yeah, so we've sort of said they're confrontational. They need to be more aware of how others experience them. What else should we know about eights in relationship? And I guess the question I really want to get to be, how, how does an Eight show love on a one to one?

 

Stephanie Foy  38:32 

Oh, I would think an eight would show love because, remember, they're going to lean into I'm going to take charge. I'm going to be decisive, you know, I'm thinking about your car repair, you know, an eight would just say, I'll, I'll handle that. You know, got it. They're going to handle things for you. They're going to, you know, might not be the way you want it, might not turn out the way you want it, but they will have they will have taken that off your plate here. Let me take this off your plate. Let me take care of that for you.

 

That's the protective nature they're going to act to protect people that they care about. So, think about any apes that I know personally in my own life, how that shows up.

 

Dana Foy  39:36 

I'm not really in relationship with that many Eights. I know some, but I'm not - I don't spend a lot of time with way our lives are structured. I don't come upon them very much.

 

Stephanie Foy  39:50 

And some of the people that I know that you know, we laugh because. Because when we did the Enneagram class at Unity, there was an eight in the room. Well, first of all, and you know, they laugh in lots of Enneagram trainings that the eights don't tend to show up. They only show up for Enneagram work when they're made to it's like so not unless they happen to be, you know, an evolving aid. But, and I don't know if it's just been our nature or the types of jobs that we've had, but yeah, I don't, I don't think of myself as being in relationship with a lot of people, but at the same time, I really see their value. But if it's me, I think about them like a wild horse. You know, do you get obtained and saddled up and they're riding in the right direction, you know, great, but man, if they're wild,

 

Amy Hageman  41:10 

I mean, the eighth, and I'm in relationship with as a two, as a compassionate helper, I look at them and I think, you know, people just keep piling on to this person. Oh, eight will handle it. Eight's already got 60 things on their calendar, but we'll handle this. You know, we'll just give this to the eight. And as a two, I'm looking at it going, at some point, are you going to break like, at some point this isn't going to serve you. You're doing a little too much, I think. But maybe they're not. Maybe they just have that much more energy. But I wonder about that sometimes, and I feel, I feel like that, for me, that relationship would be a much deeper relationship, if the eight was not so busy, then I might feel like they had more time for me. And I'm not like offended by it, but I'm going, you know, they're busy. They're not going to they're not going to chat for chatting sake.

 

Dana Foy  42:03 

So, the value for eight is capacity, the ability to do all those things, having a sense of control and being direct and emphatical. So, they may be viewing that all that is value to them, that they're able to do so many things now me as a nine, at some point time I get tired. I need to go be a sloth for a little while. Well, I think the threes and the eights had the opposite impact of the outcome of getting something done. I think they get fueled by it and I think they get better. And I think so that the value of an Eight is capacity.

 

Amy Hageman  42:45 

The more they do, the more they do.

 

Dana Foy  42:46 

That's I know that's that way for threes because I've talked, I've spoken with some threes. I'm not verified this with eights, but I'm thinking that perhaps it's the same way

 

Amy Hageman  43:02 

Interesting. Well, what else should we know? I feel like we've covered well,

 

Stephanie Foy  43:10 

so, we should talk about, how do we how do we show love to an Eight,

 

Amy Hageman  43:13 

yeah, what do you have to say about that then?

 

Stephanie Foy  43:17 

Well, I think you got the, you know, kind of what I said before, if you if there are things that you can give to an A to do, to be in charge of, to be in control of, that's going to make them happier. If you know that you're going to be in relationship with an A plan it so that you can have that energy available to be fully present and sort of engaging and being willing to confront, have that confrontational capacity sort of at the ready, because that's what that's what they're going to value. They love a good argument. They love a good, you know, round of back and forth. So, to bring yourself to that level matches their energy. So, they're going to feel appreciated. They're also, to not take anything they do personally. Don't be wounded or offended by anything they do or say. They're just trying to get things done. And if you appear wounded or feeling they're going to see you as weak, yeah, and they're going to look down upon you.

 

Amy Hageman  44:37 

God, that's a tough dynamic.

 

Dana Foy  44:38 

Well, it is. I know I've had that. The person I referred to us earlier, he and I had that going back and forth. I'm not necessarily offended, I just have a different view of things, and I want to slow it down. They will knock heads, and not been in meetings where we're trying to win somebody over. He doesn't realize that he's being blunt. Not it may be a little offensive, and if I'm feeling uncomfortable with it, I think the person that we're talking to may feel that way too. So maybe some way to make them aware that they're coming on a little bit stronger than they think, because I don't think they're aware. Well,

 

Amy Hageman  45:18 

that brings up a good question, if you're in a position of needing to give an eight some critical feedback or constructive criticism, however you want to call it, what, what advice or guidance would you give that person for preparing for that conversation?

 

Stephanie Foy  45:36 

Well, I think you have to, again, sort of match their energy, because they're not going to take it personally, like they're not going to have their feelings in the same way. So, I would say you're going to give them feedback that is about their actions, like, because that's what they value taking action so you're going to be more action oriented. Be willing to be confrontational. Be willing to be decisive, because they're going to hear it. If you're not, if you're too soft, they will not hear it, and they will not, they won't absorb it. Well, what may mean for them? Gotcha, that seems to

 

Amy Hageman  46:20 

be more direct, probably than what might be in my nature anyway. Yes, okay, okay,

 

Dana Foy  46:26 

so, the holy truth for the truth for the eight is that the universe is fair, and just that, over time, the universe is going to reward and punish people fairly based upon, I'm going to call it the Laura comma karma. You know that ultimately, it's going to catch up, and then they don't have to step up and try to fix everything or be in control of everything that that perhaps they can step back and have a clear vision of what's theirs to do and what's not to do, let things just play out that that the universe is going to catch up with people for good or bad, whatever, whatever cause and effect they have at work in their life.

 

Amy Hageman  47:15 

That's interesting. I'm just going, I'm sitting here going, theologically speaking, I'm not sure I agree with the statement, but that's irrelevant.

 

Dana Foy

Well, say something about that. I mean, can you rather than one more time? Okay, so I'm giving an example. If something comes up and you're in a rather than seeking vengeance and trying to be make something just and fair in that moment and get involved and take control. Maybe you can just sit back and realize that the universe is going to catch up with this guy. It's going to it's going to future events are going to come up in such a way where this person is punished by the universe, or justly awarded by the universe. The eight doesn't have to step in and take control of something and fix it. Okay?

 

Unknown Speaker  48:08 

Better, way of saying that, yeah, that that sits appropriately.

 

Stephanie Foy  48:15 

Okay. The Holy idea is that over the course of time, all injustice is rooted out. Yeah, over time, over time, the universe is just and fair to everybody.

 

Amy Hageman  48:33 

So, with threes, the achievement thing was, for a lot of threes, it was competition. So, with eight, is a lot of that, like desire for power and control at a subconscious level? Is it so that they're going to be rewarded by this karmic universe? Or is it just like, physiologically, they like the feeling of control?

 

Stephanie Foy  49:00 

Okay, so you're a two the energy that you get back and forth by being here to the being the What are y'all the caretakers compassionate? I know you're not compassionate caretakers. Whatever y'all are. I don't know. I can't think of it right now, but what you get by being a compassionate person, they get the same thing by being a fixer and a controller. They're getting the same thing, whatever that thing is

 

Amy Hageman  49:27 

Probably dopamine, okay,

 

Stephanie Foy  49:30 

yeah. Well, you get by being a caretaker. They get by fixing and being actively controlling things. Okay, does that make sense? Okay?

 

Amy Hageman  49:45 

It's, it's I just I'm because eight is my stretch. It's like I keep my brain keeps going back and going. Now, what you know, it's like I keep trying to feel like I understand it, rather than these are individual skills I have to practice like I feel like me. Can understand, oh, I need to be more direct, or, oh, I need to take more action. Or, you know, I can understand it at a where my growth opportunities level in a given situation, but to just understand the archetype. It's so different than my archetype that I'm having a hard time, you know? I know, I believe they're real, I just don't get it.

 

Stephanie Foy  50:21 

It's hard to get your head around it, because what they do to me, it appears to be offensive at sometimes. And how have they gotten anything good out of being offensive? Well, they're not. They don't think they're being offensive. They're just taking charge. They're just being they're just, yeah, using their power. Okay, I would say to anyone who wants to figure out how to utilize the eight energy, is to say to yourself, what would it look like to be powerful in this situation? Yeah, because that's where an eight naturally go. Now they might not do it in a way that feels good to other people. So, we can modify that. But that's that is what moves people into aid energy, yeah, what would it like to be powerful?

 

Amy Hageman  51:14 

I think back to the forefathers’ example, and I at least, even though I don't get it, because I would never have done what the forefathers did. You know, I can at least have the gratitude for the value that an eight brings. And back to the eight that I do know, and I'm in relationship with that has this whole nonprofit that has money coming in, and they do all this work like that is a thing that didn't even exist until this eight showed up, and it has affected 1000s of lives in less than a decade, you know. So, I can appreciate the potential and the possibility and the necessity of that archetype in our universe. Yeah, it's just more of a stretch for me, I think, than probably for some other numbers because of the stretch line, yeah.

 

Stephanie Foy  52:04 

Well, think about what? Five going day, who,

 

Amy Hageman  52:11 

oh, because the five stretches eight, yeah.

 

Stephanie Foy  52:14 

Think about that, yeah, yeah. Five to eight line.

 

Dana Foy  52:19 

Okay, so I'm gonna see what y'all think of this statement. I'm going to read these things from our text, because sometimes things are written more directly than easy, easier than I can put them on my own words. So, the virtue of an eight is innocence. When Type A's move into innocence. They become more open hearted. In a state of innocence, they appreciate and experience the nuances of life without judgment or jaded experience, neutralizing their drive for excess and intense experience. That's a lot to think about. First, I have to define in my own mind what is innocence. And I think if you're an eight and you're driven to be active and controlling and fix this thing, it may be hard to be innocent about something you're I think you're driven to fix something, make a choice and get on it. So, I would think you'd have to be in touch with your all your growth through the through five, where you can discipline yourself to sit back and watch and all hold back your judgment in a moment,

 

Stephanie Foy  53:35 

right? Ellen, it's think about the opposite of their core fear, which is helplessness or vulnerability? Yeah, it's like the low side of innocence would be seen as helplessness, right, whereas the high side of innocence is belief in good, you know, purity, huh?

 

Amy Hageman  54:03 

I would say like, purity, purity. Yeah, no, I think innocence and holy truth are kind of linked to each other. Yeah. I think the eighth is a challenge for me to talk about basically, because I just don't really have a relationship with any of them. When I know people who are living out that Enneagram number, it's easier for me to get my head around talking about them and understanding them. Yeah, yeah. And as you said, most eights aren't showing up for the Enneagram retreats. Yeah? Awesome. Well, I feel, I think about as solid as I'm gonna feel on an eight. Anything else that you all want to add or throw out there before we wrap up, I.

 

Stephanie Foy  55:00 

No, I would just say this. I think the next few weeks are going to be an interesting exposure of type eight, and we're going to see eight on display. So, let's be watching for it, because I think we're going to see, you know, some high side of eight, some low side of eight. And we're going to see, you know what? What shakes out, yeah,

 

Amy Hageman  55:28 

see how they utilize or not, the wings and the stretch.

 

Stephanie Foy  55:33 

Yes, well, and also, tomorrow there's a debate. And you know what do eights like confrontation? You know, be decisive. Take charge. And we got two eights battling out on the stage.

 

Amy Hageman  55:47 

That's  a good point. That's going to be interesting.

 

Stephanie Foy  55:49 

So if we can look, I'm I am now thinking one, not only am I interested in the debate for a lot of reasons, but now I'm going to, like remember to look at this debate through the lens of Enneagram energy and type and how, how's this showing up, and how much are they able, willing, able to bring in seven and nine energy or not? Yeah.

 

Amy Hageman  56:17 

Well, in this episode's going to air maybe even a week and a half, but it's going to air after the debate. So, I would just encourage people, if you watch the debate and you noticed some seven or nine or eight behavior, leave a comment. I'd love to know what people are observing and learning about this

 

Stephanie Foy  56:35 

well. And also, I think that there'll be some more debates after this post, because they said they're supposed to have three, two or three, so there'll be some others to come, so we'll see what happens. Yeah,

 

Amy Hageman  56:45 

interesting. Alright, well, thank you for being here. I'm so we're almost to nine, and then we're going to have a, you know, finale episode. We're almost wrapping up the Enneagram. It's been a journey.

 

Stephanie Foy  56:59 

So, I will just say this, that a couple of people have approached me that have listened to the podcast and said, I don't know about that, about such and such, about I don't know what you think about what you said about some type of number that's gone before. So, I've encouraged them to put their comments or send me their comments. I said we will have a finale session. So, if there are things that you want to rebut or there are things that you want to add, please be sure that you let us know, either in the comment section to the podcast, or if you know any of us and want to email us directly, please do so. We definitely want to be sure that we're given the whole picture.

 

Amy Hageman  57:38 

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to say we're going to do that episode live, and anybody that wants to come on live and ask us questions, we welcome it. Okay, great, you know. And they can email them in also, but if they can make it live and they have questions, let's, let's do it. It's helpful, yeah, okay, all right, bye. Loves. Have a great week. We'll see you back for Enneagram nine. Leave us your comments about the debates or anything else you've noticed with the with the two eights on the on the ballots, and we'll talk to you soon. Bye.

 

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