Understanding Enneagram Type 1

In this in-depth episode of the Living Out Love podcast, hosts Amy Hageman, Stephanie Foy and Dana Foy dive into the personality type known as the Enneagram Type One. Often characterized as perfectionists and critics, Ones have a strong drive to improve themselves and the world around them.

 

 

Transcript

Stephanie Foy  0:00 

That is truly one of the challenges for ones is that they are seen as hard. They are seen as critical because their, their inner critic is so strong, they're applying it to themselves first, that they set such a high standard for other people. And because they are thinking oriented, thinking and action oriented feeling comes third for typical ones, so they're not going to present as these warm, cuddly people. The truth is, once you get past that, sort of the defense and the need to prepare for perfection, ones can be some of your strongest allies.

 

Amy Hageman 0:48 

This season on the living out love podcast, we are focusing on you, who you are, what motivates you, what you're here to contribute, and how you can expand will be utilizing my leadership skills and spiritual connection. diving deep into the Enneagram and astrology. Listen every week to become intimately aware of yourself. Only then heal and grow. Let's get to work loves.

 

Understanding the Perfectionist - Enneagram Type One 

Amy Hageman  1:18 

Hello, love's Welcome to the living out love Podcast. I'm Amy Hagerman. I am joined by Stephanie and Dana Foy. This week, they happen to be my parents. They're also certified integrative Enneagram facilitators. And this is the first of nine episodes where we are going to be diving deep into each number, they will likely not be short episodes, but I have four kind of overarching goals for these deep dive episodes. I want to give all of us the chance to fall in love or experience love for whichever number it is we're talking about. But I also want us to understand that those numbers are human, what is it that they struggle with? Where can we have empathy for them? And then how can we help the numbers? What is it that they could do to be their best selves? And then for those of us that are in relationship with them, what is it that we can do to be supportive and honor who they are in the world? So I've asked a lot. Okay, so who are ones? What's an Enneagram? One? Are you gonna give you a list or describe it? Just whatever, whatever. Just let me let me name some people because I think it's easier for people to identify a type if they can visualize someone they know that exhibits type one behavior. So an actor's famous actors, Emma Watson, who was Hermione Granger, and Harry Potter is thought of at the end of one. And I'm not surprised. I mean, I witnessed her as Hermione Granger, and I witnessed her in interviews and things. So I think she may have been portrayed herself a little bit as Hermione Granger, I really believe that Matt Damon is a time alone. And he's a fabulous actor. And I've heard interviews with him and he's very precise and preparing his role. So Matt Damon, okay. A famous athlete, Venus Williams, is thought of as being attacked on their their support person who works really hard to be has set a high standard of her appearance, the way she talks to announcers when she's interviewed, obviously, her style of play. And her ability to get better. I mean, she's fallen down and gotten a falling out, I got them just That's an example of type one. And notable column politicians, Michelle Obama, is assumed to be a type one. And I think she's one of the most impactful first ladies in my lifetime when I think about when I think she really exhibited how to do many, many things at a high standard. So when I read about her, she was really kind of uncomfortable taking on that role. But she went to work at it figured out who she was, and she did it. She did it at a high standard. Set a good example for other people. Eleanor Roosevelt is one from the past. Her story later on Queen Elizabeth the second. Oh, it's thought of being a type when I think how, I mean, it was a rough ride through the royal family for seven years because he was the queen. But, you know, they they overcame, they worked hard. And we think about I don't think anybody could have pulled it off any better. Okay, so in terms of my describing a typo, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna go to two other people that that I'm familiar with, and I hope you're not too old. For the audience we have here, there's probably out of 67. So, Amy, you're I'm not gonna be your age, but you're 30 years younger than I am. So I just don't know the age range. But Martha Stewart has thought of being a type one. And Steve Jobs just thought of being a type one.

 

So, I think of a type one they are labeled a strict perfectionist. So, what I'm going to describe is not Someone who is fully a fully redeemed type of, you know, there's a quarter Richard reward, we start out as unredeemed and our type. And then we become aware that we don't have to be that way. And we take steps to get better and better and improve ourselves. So, I'm going to talk more about moderate type one. And I want to use Martha Stewart because I think people know who she is. And Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs is type one. So, type ones are the hardest working most dedicated.

 

Core Traits and Motivations of Ones

Of all the type ones. They're willing to go far above and beyond what's wielding, with the other ones to reach whatever level of perfection they elect to do. So, can you imagine a car without Apple CarPlay? Now, I won't buy a car without Apple CarPlay. That was a long journey for Steve Jobs. He had a vision, he just kept telling these guys, fix it. Make it do this, make it do this? Well, I want to I want to pause real quick, because you've said a lot already. So you said ones are the hardest working. And I would have guessed that that would have been a three or an eight. I should have made sure I heard you right.

 

Amy Hageman   6:06 

Because I think the ones they are the different one of the difference between a one and a three is threes are very physical, every actor, they're very vocal. They are performers, the ones they are about getting things done. So a lot of their work takes place internally, their thoughts need to do how to make things better. So there's a lot of pressure on themselves to make themselves perfect first. And then they transfer that through the team. So me saying that I don't know, I'm gonna go, I'm just kind of jumping around here. But I think it's a time but I could tell you what the world view is, I'm gonna read this to you.

 

The worldview of a one is the world is imperfect. And I can work towards improving it. And improving myself, I must make the world a better place. That is their worldview. They feel driven, you know, to make things better, and it starts with them. And their motivation is to be good and right. They have a strong conscious conscience, pardon me, and a good sense of discernment of what's, what's right and what's wrong. And this is their focus of attention. They call back the world distinguishing between what's right and wrong, good, and bad, correct and incorrect. And avoiding mistakes. And following rules and standards is very important. That's one way that you can make things perfect if you teach people rules and standards to adhere to. And their idealized self-images that they are good. They arrived in there perfect. So that's, you know, a quick -  I've said a lot, you have a question or Stephanie, do you have something you want to say?

 

Stephanie Foy 7:53 

Well, I think we'll get more into the shadow side of ones. But what ones bring to groups is that high degree of integrity and setting high standards for others. So that you know, one of the questions before you said was what's the difference between one and three and eight. So threes, because they're results driven, they get to good enough, and they move on, once get to good enough, and they go up, I got 20% more to do. So they're going to push beyond where three would stop and be like, Okay, fine, whatever.

 

Dana Foy  8:34 

My wife and talk real quick before I forget this in my mind, and I get distracted. So we are on a team together. And we have a one. And we started out years ago with some processes. And it was good enough. But I swear after every time we get together, which is twice a month, they break down what happened today, how can we make this better? And as continually to get better and better. We've got we have some threes and things are good enough. But because we have this one, it gets smoother and more efficient. And one of the compliments we get from the volunteers that join us. It's just how slick it is. People show up they know what to do they go right to work. They get it done and they're not they don't realize the work that happened before they got there. And then that can come another time I realized and something has changed we're doing something a little bit different. And they announced we're doing this differently because it is an incremental improvement over what we did the week before so that's what the ones bring is efficiency in that's it it's kind of go quiet you don't know they're doing it but But it's good Happening NOW Be quiet Stephanie I interrupted.

 

Stephanie Foy  9:49 

So actually, it's the three that brings the efficiency is the one that drip brings the standard and the three figures out how to implement it. That's how those two things. I was gonna say that the three and the one probably

 

Dana Foy  10:00 

You're a powerhouse, yeah, and then the eight. So you ask about eight, so eight, um, you are correct in that they're high energy people. And they're action oriented, which is where you would think about like ones and threes, but they don't have the same set of standards that one has. So they're also not going to do that 110 or 120%, that one will do in order to make things exactly right. So they're going to get to a place where they get their own degree of satisfaction, eight is and then that's good for them. Because remember, eights are active controller. So as long as they can be in control the situation the life's good. So that's just a distinction between that 138 energy that you are kind of pointing out to.

 

Amy Hageman  10:52 

So as a two, I'm listening to this description, and it sounds great. But I'm like, where's the warmth, it doesn't feel very warm to me, which not all people have to be warm, but that's usually something that I'm solving for. So that's one, I'm just making a note of that not something to be fixed. But so that is truly one of the challenges for ones is that they are seen as hard, they are seen as critical, because they're their inner critic is so strong, they're applying it to themselves first, that they set such a high standard for other people. And because they are thinking oriented, thinking and action oriented feeling comes third for typical ones. So they're not going to present as these warm, cuddly people. The truth is, once you get past that, sort of the defense and the need to prepare for perfection, ones can be some of your strongest allies, because they are going because they have such a focus on goodness, they tend to see the goodness and others, they also see this walls and others because they want everybody to be perfect. But once you get to a place where the one knows you and you know the one it, they can just be fabulous. They are loyal, they are supportive.

 

Stephanie Foy  12:25 

But when you're setting a standard, they you know, they're not going to tolerate bad behavior. They're not going to tolerate, you know, stuff like that. But yeah, so they can just be great people once you kind of get to know them. In fact, it's interesting yesterday, a person that was recently in it in our Enneagram class, that oh my gosh, she said, you know, she said, I've always liked or respected this certain person, but she said, I really couldn't see what everybody thought was so fabulous about them. She said, You know, I knew that they did a lot and they were productive. And she said, But truthfully, I didn't really like I didn't get it. She said, but when I took the class, she said I could totally have a newfound respect and admiration for this person who is a one. And for what they bring. She said, It has totally changed my perspective on that person.

 

Ones in Leadership 

Amy Hageman  13:34 

And I think, for me, I'm searching for something that I can like connect to because this is so one of the things I thought while Dana was listening to people is I was thinking, Oh, Eleanor Roosevelt. Emma Watson, they both kind of rewrote the rules. l&r, to my understanding was one of the first ladies to really make that a leadership position, where I kind of rewrote the book on that.

 

Emma Watson started her own organization. In fact, I think, come to think Matt Damon, I think he and Ben Affleck started their own production company because they wanted to rewrite the rules on what the crew got paid. Right. So and then I was thinking, Martha Stewart and Steve Jobs. I mean, I can't think of a more perfectionistic example than that.

And I was in a, I was in a cell phone retailer when the iPhone first came out, meaning I was working there. And we had all heard that story that when they were delivering the prototypes to Steve Jobs of the iPhone that they thought this is it. This is the final version. You know, here you go. This is great. And it worked. And he threw it into he had like a fish aquarium in his office, and he threw the phone into the aquarium and air bubbles started coming out of it. And he said there's too much space in there. You need to make it tighter. Like here it was they thought they delivered this final thing. And his way of testing it was to throw in in a fish tank, which I remember hearing that story and thinking, that's a little off.

 

Stephanie Foy  15:14 

That's a little bit much for me. Like maybe a bit of a tyrant is kind of what I thought.

 

Amy Hageman  15:20 

But yeah, he totally raised the bar. Every other phone company either changed or went bankrupt after that. Well, yeah. And you think about what we were using before we had the iPhone, and then what came after it. We had those BlackBerry things. So it's just cumbersome and funky. Anyway, yes. So they do set high standards. Now, what you were talking about in terms of innovative that's trying to get to so where they tend to innovate is one if they lean into their four, which is a whole nother conversation, but because they value principles and integrity, and order, they're going to look for places where that does not exist. So

 

Stephanie Foy  16:07 

Eleanor Roosevelt, as far as I could see, she felt like there were things in society that were out of integrity for who America said they were said we were. Hmm, that makes sense. And so what that what she looked to do was to apply what she believed were American principles and American integrity, to say, we've got to do better. We as a society have to do better. We're better than this. Same thing. I would say, in some cases, you hear about Michelle Obama, in terms of what she was looking to do was hold America to the standard that we say we are be in integrity with our own principles. She had to be perfect. Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, well, I mean, it isn't it isn't. I don't think, even though I think the country was like, ready ish, for a person of color to be the president. I think the fact that she is a perfectionist, helped. Probably yes, you know, I mean, somebody that was just warm and was a person of color wouldn't have been enough for most Americans now. So it had to be somebody with.

 

Amy Hageman  17:21 

Okay, that's getting me there. No, I'm like, oh, no, I can fall in love. Yeah, very high ideals have very high standards that they bring to something that feels important to them. Yeah. You know.

 

Stephanie Foy  17:37 

And they're going to continue to hold themselves. As Yeah, like, you know, I think about like, they're the point of the spear, they're willing to go first, they're willing to, you know, hold themselves up as the example. And do that, no matter how painful it is.

 

So what I have experienced around someone's and I've often read about him is that there's, they're so focused on getting things done, and that they're, they're not aware that they have a kind of a blunt or harsh delivery to people that are real sensitive. And I'm a nice, so I have a one wing, and I've experienced this when my momma one shows up, I'm trying to get things done, even when I'm trying to I'm trying to dial back the intensity of my voice, and the look on my face. And I go, I can't do it, it comes down to it lands hard. So I just don't think that that many times they're aware, like Steve Jobs probably wasn't aware that that could have hurt somebody's feelings. He just fixed this thought in a fish tank and show you that it's not ready yet. And it maybe somebody later got their feelings had to tell him. So I just don't think they're aware of that.

 

Amy Hageman  18:55 

I'm curious, is it possible that they're aware, but they're willing for people to be hurt in order to get to perfection? Screw your feelings. Let me get this right.

 

Personality Traits of Ones

Dana Foy

Well, as an all numbers, people have various ways of demonstrating their numbers. You may have like, I'm a nine but I have a strong one wing and my two wings not that strong. So it's just varies from person to person. So I'm kind of talking more about in my mind, someone is kind of a moderate, semi redeemed person. Okay. And you said to wing I think you said that because the one swing is a two way to get your hammer. Nice. Well, yeah, so it's the AMA more. So I my one's got me. So. Gotcha. I feel that

 

Amy Hageman  19:44 

um, so we I just want to go over everything that I heard you say so that you can add anything else if I'm not remembering, right? So the ones strive for perfectionism. They're really creative.

 

Stephanie Foy  20:00 

Call which can be positive or negative primarily on themselves, they have a very clear sense of what's right, what's wrong, their moral value. And they're very committed to living that out. So if something's not up to snuff, per se, then they're committed to changing it. That's, that's my understanding of the one, what am I am I missing anything, you got that. So we're going to talk about social social style, if there's something that a woman wants, the way they get that is they're compliant, they follow rules, they set standards, they behave well, they lead, they try to get what they want, by being good, about being productive and doing things right. And then when things don't go, well, well, competency comes into play, they fix it, they analyze what was wrong, how they can make it better. So they, they make that thing compliance. So that's how they find a way in the world.

 

So other side ones, are triggered when they feel like other people don't comply, you know, and so they can be seen as harsh or critical, they can be seen as impatient, because they feel like, here's the standard, you should meet it, you know, and so they they can be challenging for people who have a hard time with follow through, because ones are going to follow through to the nth degree. So people who don't follow through, are likely to get on their last nerve, you know, and they can be seen as self-righteous and stubborn, because they've got this high standard. So what it's like every number, your high side, it's like a double edged sword, you know, it's like what's good for you can also be bad for you. So good for them high standards, bad for them high standards. So it's just how they're carried out and how they interact with others. So, but I would say the biggest challenge for ones is to handle their own inner critic, because that's the strongest voice. And so while others are going to have a different, whatever, but their inner critic is so strong that in some cases, some ones have told me, Oh, yeah, 90% 90% of the thoughts I have in my head are how I could have should have been doing something better, you know, I should have done that better, I should have done that quicker, whatever. So that's a hard place to be, in my opinion.

 

Amy Hageman  22:45 

As a to, I feel like I have that on my one wing, I totally relate to the constant and I'll catch myself in the Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda, uh, I'll catch it and think that's not even true. Like, I'll feel like I should have done something on some information I didn't even have at the time. Like, it's not even possible that I could have done it different. But my mind is still telling me. So I'm assuming that ones have that. Also, where not only are they nothing's ever enough, but it's probably so patterned in them that it might not even be based in reality, they could just never be enough. That's right, exactly. Because the world is never going to be perfect. Yeah. And so for the ones, they're always striving for perfection in themselves, in other people and in the world. So as long as long as it's not perfect, they've got work to do. So, on the opposite side, the idea that we can support once in is to know that there is perfection, in you know, in my spiritual language, it would say the universe is perfect. You know, this was a divine, everything is in divine order. And if we can just move into our higher self, our higher essence, we can understand that there's perfection in all things. So that's a place that we can support ones is to sort of soften some of that critic and allow for there's a there's a fine order there's perfection in all things.

 

Amy Hageman  24:19 

Hmm. It's funny that you said soften because earlier I said that the word warmth and we haven't talked about this specifically, but based on the way you've described one so far, it feels to me like ones are more thinking and doing rather than feeling. That's right. Yeah.

 

Dana Foy  24:39 

They're, they're one two, you know, they're wanting three punches, you know, think do feel less than their know how they're feeling sensitivity. So yeah. But that sort of gets us into what can they you know, if you are looking for movement, it's One, how do we integrate the high side of one the virtues of goodness leaning into those values, but in a softer way, that says, you know,

 

Stephanie Foy  25:13 

I can be serene, I can be peaceful, I can know that there's divine order imperfection and all things and let it play out. Because sometimes we know that perfection is on the way, but it just isn't here yet. So the ones are like, gotta make it perfect right now. So that's one thing for the ones but also to look at their wings, which is nine, and two, and nine and one, that it's no, a no, nine and two, yes, sorry, as a wing. So their wings are nine and one. So nines, you know, they're the adaptive peacemakers. So they're going to seek other people's points of view. So you can see where if a one truly engages in looking at other people's points of view, that's going to soften their stance. Does that make sense? Because, as you see, oh, these are other ways of looking at this, this, you know, my way might not be the exact perfect way, there may be other points of view that would shine a light on this. And then the other side, the two, as you know, they're going to be focused on other people's needs. So that's a different sort of focus than focusing on a strict ideal or perfection or a standard. Does that make sense? So it's a two is emotional place. Nine is the more emotional place. So either of those places, if they lean into either wing, that that perceived harshness of one is going to be softened?

 

Ones and Other Types

Amy Hageman  26:56 

Okay. My sense as a two so I can get lost in what I perceive to be the needs of others. Yeah, thinking about the one, I'm thinking they probably have a lot of self trust.

 

Dana Foy  27:12 

Even though they're always pushing themselves to be better, there's probably an element of them that believes in their ability to make things happen, in a way, okay. So because one of the fears that they have, is to be wrong, or imperfect or bad, okay. So while that's a fear that they have, they're going to overcompensate by being sure that they can be right, that they can be good. And they typically will put themselves in a situation where they might not have that capacity. Okay. Does that make sense? It does. Well, Darren, I was hooked. I was hoping that there there'd be this element of I am who I am, I trust myself, you know, because that's something for me as a two I'm like, gosh, that's admirable, you know? Yes.

 

Stephanie Foy  28:08 

That'd be like awkward situations with some with a couple of ones. And there was a conversation happening a story about something or something that going well, and in a situation where I would be expressing emotions, feeling something, but what I witnessed was that kind of stepping back and just watching. And I think what they were doing was just processing what was happening and how could have been made better. What What could I have done wrong with this. And also what was because they have such a sense of right and wrong, they have a tight control over themselves on their emotions, they don't want to act out and be seen as being inappropriate. So a lot of times, they'll they'll maybe be experienced and internal motion, but they're just not letting you see it. And they may not have totally processed yet. So they're there. They just express him differently than us.

 

And it's how I do it anyway. And you are correct. The positive side is, once they figure it out, like Dana said, you know, like they stand back and watch and then when they are clear that they have a path forward to make things better. And they are clear about that. Absolutely. They will stand in their own power and show up and be like, this is the way you get things done. You know, we see a lot of ones in roles that put them related to quality control, related to messaging, how do we how do we deliver this message?

 

You know, so that it's you wouldn't think about one being in communication, but the truth is, they want to be exacting. They want to be sure that we're delivering the right message or we they want to be sure that the quality of this corporation or the these products. That's where a one is going to naturally find themselves. I mean, that's kind of what we've said about Steve Jobs. And Martha Stewart. I mean, you know, Martha Stewart for having everything just so there's like, you know, so yeah. So once they are clear that they have a path forward, and that they see how to get to, you know, something of a higher standard, yes, they will be very confident, and their actions and how they work with others and their expectations of other people. You know, and Martha was may have worked a whole long time behind the scenes in practice, and had many iterations before they reveal what they're going to teach you. Show. That's true. She makes it look easy. Yeah, but you don't know how hard she worked on it. Many times and like Venus Williams, how hard is he have to work to keep herself in shape, and learn all the shots and a lot of practice, they make it look easy, but I assure you a lot of work happened behind the scenes.

 

Amy Hageman  30:59 

I mean, they're just as human as the rest of us. Yeah. Well, and I, it's funny, because when you mentioned communication, I was kind of like, huh, but then back to some of the other examples you guys gave Michelle Obama's was known being a very great precise, articulate communicator. And then who is the Emma Watson also, she's very when she's been communicating about her films, but also about her organization. She's very precise. And that makes sense. But I never would have put that together. That's interesting.

 

So we started to get into the wings a little bit, and then I think I took us off track. So you were saying with the nine seeking input from others, and that the nine and twos are both feelers, and that can soften them. So was there anything else you wanted to say about how and when to utilize the wings? So the nine wing can make it easier for them to sort of suspend judgment, because remember, nines are peacemakers. So they're gonna like they want to include everybody, they want everybody to be, you know, at peace, that's what they're seeking. So if you think about a one, it's like, okay, suspending judgment, suspending that critic in order to be more accepting of other people, and wherever they are.

 

Also, because nines, you know, they have that moniker of being the meditating elephant, they tend to, and they want to be sort of unscathed by life. So that means they, by nature have sort of what I would think of as a softer energy, a kind of a slower energy than you might think about a hard driving one. So to lean into a nine is going to be a way for a one to soften and relax, and sort of loosen up in terms of some of their strict boundaries. So that's where a nine can, you know, support the one is to lean into that nine energy. And then the to energy, you'll you'll job with this is to balance that task orientation with the people orientation.

 

And so I'm tempering their standards with their concern for people. So, balancing that is a place where a two a one can lean into that too. And and the two can also help the one with their inner critic. If they can connect with other emotions than the one to get this thing down and get it perfectly. They can soften up on themselves and the inner critic cannot can be perceived as not being quite as harsh. Hmm. Also leaning into the two gives the one that the opening to be more emotionally available. That because twos we know like people talk about two's were in their emotions on their sleeves, you know, they're emotionally available.

 So the one who doesn't seem like there is emotionally available, they can lean towards too, and that's going to give them that feeling that you that were that you've been looking for warmth, that's going to make them feel more warm and more affectionate.

 

Amy Hageman  34:43 

Yeah, I think when I think about like Michelle Obama, I think she's probably comfortable in her two wing, right.

 

Dana Foy  34:52 

Okay. Yeah, I would say if you look at Michelle, she was pretty integrated, in that she was comforted Bullet her two wing. But she was also in some ways a peacemaker, she would want to include other people. But at the core, she was still holding to a high degree of principle and integrity. So she was integrating those in a very, in my mind healthy sort of way.

 

Stephanie Foy  35:20 

Yeah. Well, I like also the idea, if you know of one of the biggest burdens of the one is the inner critic, I like the idea that leaning towards the to the compassionate helper, or the nine to suspend judgment could help heal the inner critic. Yeah, one of the things I keep coming back to this podcast season is how the universe is designed to help us heal. You know, and so the one has that in either wing, to some extent, you know, so that's just beautiful.

 

Enneagram lines - Stretch and Release

Dana Foy  35:57 

Well, so you want to move on to the lines, because that's another opportunity for healing. So the lines for the one are seven, and four. And seven, is what? The enthusiastic visionary, this is the playful number, these are the folks that are you know, they're spontaneous, they're exploring the world they're playing. Now, do you see a one being playful? It's hard for them. I see them being visionary, perhaps the right play. So yeah, so but if they can lean into that.

 

Now, this is funny, because you might think, oh, seven would be a stretch for them. And it kind of is a stretch, but not like the four is when we get there. So the seven is that enthusiastic, visionary, so, but it can release a lot of tension, if the one can move into more exploration, more playfulness, more spontaneity, for that, kind of a one has time for that? Yeah, well, you know, it's, it's a, it's a, but it's really good for them. Because it just, you know, it does all kinds of good things. One, it reduces their stress, it gives them another outlook on life, it can, again, soften that inner critic because you can't be too critical. If you're on the way to spontaneity, you know, if you're just doing the next thing and you're exploring, you're by its very nature exploration says we're not going to be into perfection. Exploration says, that's going to be messy along the way. So yeah, same thing with fun. You're Yeah, I'm assuming you're not thinking about perfectionism when you're just having fun. Yeah, well, it's very hard.

 

But you go into seventh and learning to have fun and being spontaneous can be a link to the stress point, the four. Right? So, the strange point of that four is that create intense creative. So that whole, you know, in order to be creative, you got to suspend perfection, you got to get messy, you got to be willing to know that you're not going to get it perfectly the right thing, you're going to try some things you might. So creativity and perfectionism sort of like don't live in the same crucible. So moving into that intense creative moves ones into more self expression, it moves them, it can move them more into self care, which self care for a one is challenging, because you know, there's always more to do, there's always something else to make perfect make, right? So that, that for energy can support them in that way. But that's a big and the reason that we call it a stretch is because it will stretch you so it will cause you to be uncomfortable, it will cause you to get out of yourself.

 

So you can imagine that would you know that sort of intense creative energy would be countered to a one. So, four is the stretch. Hmm, and seven is the release. Mm hmm. So that is that kind of what you were gonna say earlier is if they move towards the four that will help them get to the seven or what?

 

Dana Foy  39:49 

It's easy to go to the release. Okay, so, you know, then there I think if they can go to the seventh and learn to be spontaneous and have fun and light up, that can be a setup

To release the tensions that the one feels and an inner critic and, and tobe perfect, and sit with, like Stephanie said, what it takes to be intensely creative.

 

When you're trying to create something new and you get frustrated, because you're stuck, it could be easy just to toss, you know, the cell phone and the fish taking and pick up your Blackberry. But if you spent some time with seven, you can realize, okay, I'll get there, and it's supposed to be messy. And maybe you can hang with it. It also could be a matter of self discipline, where I just stay with maybe I go away for a little while and come back to it. But just to stay with it. So I think that's where Steve Jobs set himself apart, he was able to just be intensely creative with all the things he did. In fact, when he passed away, one of the concerns about Apple being successful was who's going to be the visionary for Apple now?

 

No, Tim Cook, who took his place, he was more of an operations guy. And so that whole conversation about creativity, and the one is, is very easy. Interesting to study. How does How did he do that? How did Steve do that? Part of it was by access to the seven inner wing, and the four wing lines, partly, he was able to create and maintain a very fluid creative team, he kept pressing on them to be better. And he probably was intuitive enough to hire people that had a four, a four had that within him. So he didn't probably have to figure it all out. He just knew my team was capable of doing that. And he, you know, the, his wings, and his lions helped him be patient. So they came up with it. I mean, he sent him back to the drawing board many, many times. So you know, it, no, we're all a work in progress. And I have seen someone soften up by going out and having fun, and be able to have more intimate relationships with me and others, because they went somewhere and took some risks and had some fun. And then I've been with them, when they talked about their fun how they go from being I'm going to talk about their type one serious nature, to talk about the fun, they had the creativity, they get a spark in their eye.

 

And I just think it, it's something that maybe they unconsciously begin to use their wings, because it becomes a practice and it makes them feel good.

 

Amy Hageman  42:31 

I think it's interesting, I can see that the four is a stretch for the one. For me, when I think about my release, my release is easy for me to get to it's like second hand nature. But I think about a one going to a seven that doesn't necessarily seem easy to me.

 

But it is our I guess for all numbers, but are the releases, something that we're all naturally kind of ease into or release is sometimes uncomfortable for people?

 

Dana Foy  43:01 

Okay, so I'm a nine, and my release point is three, which is right action. And it's easy for me to do that. If I can make a list of things to do, and I can do these things. And that is easy for me. Okay, but it's something that you choose to step into more so probably than like your one wing. Maybe it's just more of a natural overlap, or I'm confused about the wings and the lines.

 

Okay, I'm so sorry. But the lines now so the three line for me is easy, because all I have to do is do something. Okay, I'm gonna step out of being a meditating elephant. Thinking about doing something ruminating about doing something to actually doing something. Okay, anything? Yeah, so the seven line, do you think that the seven line is easy for one?

 

Okay, so, so I think it, it has to be conscious. Okay. So for some folks, and, you know, that talked about in the, when you started the beginning, that how Richard Ward talks about the unredeemed and the redeemed ones. So in their higher side, ones can move easily towards seven. The more they integrate, the more they work on themselves, they can see the value of that relaxation of that release of that spontaneity, they can see the value of it initially. If they're not if they if they are in the growth part of one and they're in the early stages.

 

Stephanie Foy  44:52 

The seven can be a challenge. Now what really can help a seven help one is to hang out with and sevens, or to, you know, hang out with people who have access to seven, because that's going to encourage them and set a model for them. It's like every, like all of us, when we can hang out with somebody who is one of our lines, and see and let that be a model to us. It's like, oh, that's what that looks like, oh, I can I can, you know, I can't do that holy. But I could do a little bit of that, or I can lean into that. So yeah, so I think it's a it has to be intentional. But it has to, you know, your dad was saying it's easy for him to move into his three. Well, I think he's learned that that's been a growth thing to bring it up.

Dana Foy 46:00

It wasn't easy at first. Yeah, I mean, I had, but I live with a three. So here's my model. Here's my example. So then maybe this one was easier for me, because oh, that's how you do it. You just keep moving. You just don't stop moving. So you get up out of the chair. And then we sit down, you get rested, get up and move somewhere. So but I remember years ago, when I first started working with the Enneagram it was difficult for me to really stay active.

Although I will say with the ones in the sevens, it seems like they're both visionary in some way. And they're both doers. Right? So I can see how like, it's it. It's not maybe natural for one to go to a seven. But I could see how that would be an easier slide than going to a four which is such a feeler. Yes. You know, just in their body. That's like if you asked me to go sit through a presentation, that's just thinking all day? I mean, I can't. I just can't do it, because it's thinking is so repressed for me. So I could see how that would be the case.

 

Amy Hageman 47:00

 That's, that's helpful. Yeah. So I feel pretty complete with this stretch in the release the sevens in the in the for ones. But do you have anything you want to add for that?

 

Dana Foy  47:13 

I don't think so.

 

Social Styles of Ones

Amy Hageman  47:16 

So Dad, you started to talk earlier about their social style as being compliant? Is that what you said, I don't remember what you said their social style was, but okay, compliant. They are, they are big into showing up and behaving properly, which means being on time, being appropriately dressed. Following rules, setting a high standard, just be in setting a good example. And then when things go awry, the way they fix things, to acquire things they don't want is to be competent, they'll go through the one process of determining what needs to be fixed, what is the best way to fix it. So

 

Dana Foy  48:02 

Enneagram says that they get what they want by being compliant. And following rules, setting examples. And then when things go awry, they fix up the pick up figuring out ways to to make things better.

 

Stephanie Foy  48:19 

Again, also think about that ones, whether it's rules, but they like rules, protocols, processes, they're going to be strong in all of those sorts of areas. I mean, I know a one in a professional standard that has a process map for every piece of his job, like he's developed a map, a process structured map for everything that happens in his domain. So it's like, so that's, but then when something goes wrong, it's like, oh, here's the problem and the process to either that's where you fix it, or you restructure the process. But so, rules, protocols, processes, policies, all of those things are going to be strongly in the purview of a one societal norms, which we all know in society, do the normal thing. Yeah. As a two, I can really get down with that, because if you have all the rules for me, I can just follow the rules and then you will like me does not have to even figure it out. Yeah.

 

Amy Hageman  49:29 

Which sort of, I guess, leads. I mean, you touched on it earlier. With one they expect other people to also be perfect and also have this high standard. But what else should we know about interacting with one socially or in any sort of relationship?

 

Dana Foy 49:30

Okay, so the way one loves you is by doing things for you. I have a one that the way she loves me is she knits and she knits things for me and she does things for other people that she cares about. And as he likes to do it perfect, I have seen her needing something for somebody else, and get way on down the road with it.  And or be a boo boo. And just rip the whole thing apart. Start all over. No frustration, no cussing, I'll throw it on the floor stomping on it. This is not gonna be good enough, like I gotta do. I said, Well, can't you just kind of do a little bit? It's other thing attack going on? Nobody I know, all of you. Well, no, I can't do it. So when this person brings me these things, I'm aware of what a gifted it is. The energy and the thought that was behind that. So that's how one in my opinion is going to express their love and affection.

 

Stephanie Foy  50:47 

Did you have any other thing to say about that or the other thing I would say about being in relationship with ones are is if they come across hard, you know, like, don't take it personally, it's not personal to you. It's their standard. And just know that what's underneath there is a higher ideal. So that's what I would say just like, let water roll up, like a duck's back, just try to not be defensive. And try to just not take it personally if they come across as hard or critical or impatient. You know, just know that, like, with every style, every number, there's a downside, that's the downside of one. So just don't, don't look into it, you know, because you can go, you can, you could have your feelings hurt, you could be offended, you could be or you could just say, oh, that's just, you know, so and so being a woman. And I need to value and appreciate the fact that they care so much about me, or they care so much about my organization, or they care so much about my team, that they want to hold us all to a high standard. So switch into what you value about the one and just don't hang on to that other stuff.

 

Dana Foy  52:18 

You know, I think if I hadn't known about the ones, if I hadn't had the Enneagram I could easily see myself not appreciating the effort and the perfection. And just thinking, Oh, they just like to do it that way. Or oh, they're just high maintenance. You know, right. So I think having that understanding, like to Dad's story about the completely ripping up the knitting and starting over. I think in the past, I have written things off as Oh, well. That's just what they like to do. Rather than that's the effort that they're putting into the relationship. Mm hmm. So for me, that's a helpful reframe.

 

Okay, so here's what I've also learned about the few number of ones that I'm in relationship with, because I come across or can be perceived to come across as hard as you can think that they don't need love and affection, something that they don't require, well that I can't be more wrong about that. The way you can live on a one is to love on them. And what behind the put your arm around, hey, how you doing? Oh, I love that thing. You need it for me, I wear it everywhere. I wear tonight, keep my bald head clothes on, you know, my linear with my head gets cold.

 

 So I wear that and I sleep in it. And then when I'm around other folks, I'll show it off. You've got to realize that beneath that crusty self as someone who's just needs everything we have, they're just not in touch with it. And I also believe that once you demonstrate for that it makes it easy for them to soften their inner critic and have that available to deliver to other people. They just have to have a role model.

 

Amy Hageman  54:11 

Hmm. Mom, were you gonna say something? Wrong? I thought of something.

 

Communicating with Ones

Stephanie Foy 54:25

But now it's left me so well. Well, one of the things that I think a lot about that I could do every podcast episode on this, but I won't I think a lot about how the vast majority of us don't have significant education and how to communicate through and then I think about for me, it helps to turn everybody into a little baby into a little inner child to humanize them. So I think about that sweet baby one.

 

And even if I was going to communicate something that I thought was just neutral that that they really take that and put that on themselves. And in some way, if they already have a harsh inner critic, I could see, like, as a two, I'm already figuring out how do I live on this person, I could see that I need to be extra mindful of the way I communicate with a one, because of that harsh inner critic, right. And I'll add to that not only communicating on the positive side, but if you have something corrective. In our language, we would call corrective feedback to give a one, you better be careful, you want to be sure that that idea of their emotional bank account is full, because they're already so hard on themselves, that when you give corrective feedback to a one, it is more devastating than a lot of the numbers.

 

So you have to really  go in with that idea of, of here's what I know about you and hear and holding to that higher ideal that they have for themselves, that you're engaged with that, and that this is just a stepping stone to that. So, holding to that space, when you're going to give corrective feedback to one is really important.

 

Perfectionism and Self-Love 

Amy Hageman

Yeah. So for those of you that have never heard of the emotional bank account, I'm pretty sure Stephen Covey has the book about that. And I have an episode in Season One of the podcasts you can go listen to if you want to learn more about that. One of the things that John Gottman teaches is like the three to one ratio, the six to one ratio of positive to negative feedback. And one of the things that mom and I have taught with leading consciously is how to give positive feedback.

 

And I won't go into it too much, but because I'm so passionate about people learning how to communicate, you know, if you're going to give positive feedback to a one, it's not just thank you for the thing. It's maybe how the thing made you feel where you intend to use it, what you appreciate about it, or honoring their input into it, but it's like, how can you deepen expand on your gratitude in a way that makes that positive feedback, like sticky or something they can really sink their teeth into? Right? Well, I want to add this, what, like, the perfection of anything that they've done for you where that perfection is for you. Like, you know, this was really perfect that you thought about me in this way, this is really perfect that you, you know, using that word is like it makes it sticky for those ones that perfect the way you did this.

 

So yep, so doing that making sure that you are building up those ones, because it'll help them with their own inner critic, but also, when you have to give supportive corrective feedback, you've got the basis on which to do that. Yeah, that's so fascinating. I mean, this is, again, why we're doing all these episodes. But perfection is not ever something I even notice. It's not something I'm looking for. Either. Things are what they are, and I I'm not that judgy of a person.

 

So I'm not taught, you know, judging if things are right or wrong. So just the idea of looking for perfection on behalf of giving feedback to the one it's really helpful for me and thinking about, you know, how can I love and honor my ones in my life? Yeah. Interesting. Anything else we want to say about being in relationship with one's  here's, here's where I've gone in my mind, to the spiritual aspect of things.  And it's similar but different to what you said earlier, about, like the holy idea or the perfection in the universe. I was thinking about the concept of a divine idea of like, if perfectionist divinity ones have a divine idea, and they're essentially trying to make it manifest into the imperfect human world. Yeah, and that is something I can fall in love with. You're trying to bring the divine to the messy egoic human state of things. And that's that is something that's really admirable.

Yeah. And I mean, I feel really good about ones now, which is good, because I wasn't sure. I also think I'd be curious. So dad, Dana, you're a nine. I'm a two. So we both share that one wing and I think we both relate to having a very harsh inner critic. I'm curious. If the idea of somebody giving you positive feedback and saying that it was perfect, do you think that would resonate anymore for you, then?

 

Dana Foy  1:00:11 

I'm a nine at heart, so I wouldn't believe in.

 

So, you know, I don't know what to say about that. I don't think I've ever done anything perfectly. I've never been up feel really good as somebody said it was part of it. So what we've been talking about, you described is valuing things as being imperfect. That is the virtue of serenity, or the one that behind this is that the world as it is, you know, what's imperfect, as I view it, I mean, you know, when you learn to walk, you're gonna fall down a bunch of times, you're just not going to jump to the absolute. And you don't have the time and energy to fix everything.

 

And so that when you come upon something is perfect as it is because it's, it's early on and to its growth and its development. So that's where a one can find serenity and realizing that things are perfect, and you can make them better and distinguishing between what is theirs to do and what is not theirs to do. Where they can get that can find more time to be in that release point that seven is when they realized that they don't have to fix everything. There is time for me to go out of here and explore and be fine. There's time for me to be over here on the floor and become more creative. So that's, that's the virtue for them is serenity, because it frees them up to become more in touch with all the other aspects of themselves.

 

Amy Hageman  1:01:49 

When you say that's the virtue, are you saying that's a virtue that they already have? Or you're saying that's what they're trying to get?

 

 

Stephanie Foy

That's the fully redeemed one. Okay, really integrated, they understand they are they are, you know, on the on the DAS fully downside, their vices, anger, you know, they're frustrated about things not being perfect.

 

And the virtue is serenity, they understand that things are the way they are. And they don't have to perfect everything, that they work on the things that are there to do, and sit back and relax, when something's not theirs to work on. And it just says that, then in our essence, that our spiritual essence, were all perfect, and that we're all works in progress. And then we'll help them relax, and enjoy the high side of the wings in our lives.

 

Amy Hageman

Hmm. Well, I would like to wrap up, if you guys are ready to wrap up here. I'd like to wrap up and I just want to, I don't know, I kind of want to give a blessing to the ones. So I want to honor their commitment to what is right. And their dedication to making things better. And I want to wish them lots of fun and outlets for creativity. And just send all those little baby ones. Lots of you are already enough vibes. And so, for ones if you're listening, we honor you. We love you, all you people that loved ones go tell them how perfect they are. And we'll talk soon everyone bye.

 

Thank you for listening to the living out love podcast. If this episode was helpful for you, there are three ways that you can share the love. can send this episode to family friend, neighbor, leave me a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform or comment and ask questions on YouTube. This season is meant to be interactive. Thanks again for your presence. I appreciate you being here. Talk to you next week loves